Ramblings on male and female dress codes at work

I guess this is company by company. At my company, the women tend to police the women’s dress code. I know of women coworkers who have approached each other about wearing too revealing or casual clothes.

The men would be scared stiff to talk to a woman about such a thing.

The main problem with your workplace’s dresscode is the attitude towards pocket squares. Clearly overly restrictive and fussy.

This was my thought upon reading the OP.

The male dress code described in the OP is pretty traditional and conservative (even old-fashioned), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it had been in place since before there were any women in that particular workplace.

One good story of how an office “dress code” got to be established in one DC area small business was when one of the VPs came back from lunch vowing to clean up his act a bit. It seems that he was offered a job as dishwasher/kitchen help at the counter where he stopped for lunch. He decided that his outfit needed updating and that goal apparently went out through the office. Either emulation or no one else wanted to be embarrassed at the local diner. :slight_smile:

MrLee, I hope you realize you’re working at a very tradition-bound “firm” (and that word is appropriate). I worked at a very conservative company (and they were proud of being called “Old Guard” or even “Dinosaurs”). They were so afraid of change that they hired and promoted toadies who would dress “appropriately” no matter how uncomfortable (three-piece suits and ties in summer? Not fun).

The problem is, society was changing, and they refused to or to lighten up on anything (not even a dress code). Younger, more flexible companies made exciting presentations to our biggest clients (in their Hawaiian shirts and jeans), stole them away, and we went out of business.

But right to the end, everyone was afraid to look out of place. And your company policies do sound like they’re based on fear. Fear of being noticed, fear of being passed over for promotions because you didn’t wear the right shirt with the right suit. Management at my “firm” ruled by daily disapprovals like these, and kept everyone in a state of low-level fear.

I mentioned this to my boss once and he surprised me by admitting it, even being proud of it. “Well, you figured it out. Of course we want you afraid. If you spend Saturday worrying about what we think of you, you’ll come in Sunday and get extra work done.” (yes, we were salaried)
I bolded a few of your terms which sound like coercion, or at least management-by-fear:

After “The Firm” went under, I ended up at a smaller, much more creative workplace where people didn’t care about what you looked like, they cared about what you did, and whether you were happy and fulfilled. That’s my hope for you, MrLee! If you want to “carry more professional weight and respectability”, work somewhere where you can do great work that makes the world a better place… without worrying what others think of your shoes.

I feel lucky. I can work at any of three offices. The first, my attire can be from nothing (a bit chilly), to pajamas (not in my wardrobe), to whatever. That’s because it is my home office and/or bedroom, and no one can see me as long as my laptop cam is taped over.

Second is a real estate office. No particular dress code, although something out of season would be noticed. If I feel that my clients (or potential clients) prefer a suit & tie, that’s what I can wear. Otherwise, almost anything goes, including shorts in summer.

Third is a back room in a town office. No required code, and no major exposure to the public. I feel comfortable wearing anything that might be seen on a farm, a street, or the library – a pretty large range.

Personally, I stay away from torn clothing, dirty clothing, or clothing that might suggest I just came from mucking out the barn. We all have our limits, right?

I just want to know when yoga pants and a long over-sized shirt became appropriate for an office.

Same here. I can wear anything my wife would find acceptable for me to wear at Applebees. (although she objects to Applebees)

If I showed up to work in anything other than jeans and a Hawaiian shirt I think the Superintendent and the Principal would be in my classroom within the hour, inquiring as to my mental state and general attitude. :smiley:

Take a look at movies with women in the workplace from the '50s say, and tell us about the evidence that their dress code came from prostitutes.
And in case you hadn’t noticed, women get treated as sex objects by some men no matter what they wear. It happened long before the term was invented.

Meh, it’s a trade off I’m willing to make for peeing standing up, making more, spending less on basically everything, and having much simpler hygiene requirements.
When all of those are addressed I’ll start complaining that I have to wear the monkey suit.

Are there any women in the executive ranks of your company?

I worked in Silicon Valley. We consider people professional based on the work they do, not what they wear. In fact when I joined the company one of the first things I got was a little news story about our billionaire founder who hated suits and ties, and only wore them when testifying before Congress or meeting world leaders.

Lawyers have to dress up. So do bankers, I guess to prove they can be trusted with money. But the people I worked with were plenty professional, men and women, even and perhaps because of the lack of a dress code.

Lawyers have to dress up in court. And, of course, many law firms have a dress code. They don’t have to. My firm is my cite. (I’m currently sitting at my desk in jeans, tennis shoes, and a t-shirt).

Thirty years ago, when I started in my career, “business attire” was the standard at the first two companies at which I worked.

For men, that code was tremendously simple to follow:

  • Business suit (not a blazer and slacks)
  • Dress shirt (always long sleeved)
  • Tie
  • Dress shoes

About the only place where any creativity at all was really allowed in this was in choice of tie; even a shirt of an unusual color (pretty much, anything other than white, light blue, or light yellow) would earn one a “please don’t wear that shirt again” from management.

For women, it was a little less straightforward, but in the '80s and early '90s, it largely amounted to women’s business suits, or (sometimes) dresses. Most women’s business suits at that time had skirts, not pants, and (except maybe in the winter months) women were expected to wear skirts (and pantyhose).

Then, in the mid-to-late '90s, a lot of businesses in the U.S. (including where I was working at the time) went to “business casual.” For men, again, that was pretty straightforward:

  • Dress shirt, polo shirt, or the like (or a sweater)
  • Khakis or other casual pants (not jeans)
  • Casual shoes (not sneakers)

And, frankly, most of us guys had stuff like that in our closets already.

But, my recollection is that quite a few women with whom I worked (especially the younger ones) struggled with figuring out what, in their wardrobes, did or didn’t qualify as “business casual,” in part because they didn’t have things like that already in their wardrobes.

This is amazing to me. At least two different women have been fired from where I work for constantly being late/ not showing up. But then again there’s no HR for my company either.

In the 50’s, here is one:
Note: There is a annoying sidebar that pops up but just click on the main article 2times or so and it disappears.

In the 50’s for this job they didn’t just want you thin, female, attractive and blond but also single and ‘unencumbered’.

The second is what used to confuse me (when I used to care about such things as office dress. Now, I’ve pretty much given up on cow-orkers doing their jobs minimally competently, so what they wear doesn’t even register!) I’ve worked in law offices all of my adult life. It used to strike me as curious that women could wear sleeveless tops/dresses and sandals w/o stockings, where it would be considered inappropriate for a man to wear shorts, sandals and a tank top.

Some people seem to have no clue as to the image they present in certain attire. One time we had our receptionist show up w/ a t-shirt advertising a strip club. (He was later marched from the office for kiddie porn on the office computer! :smack:) And we had large women wearing very tight, short, and revealing clothes.

I used to wonder about women who demanded to be treated as professionals, yet they showed up in sheer blouses showing lacy underwear and considerable cleavage, short and slit skirts, …

It really isn’t rocket science - and isn’t at all restrictive. Just wear something that isn’t too tight or too revealing, is in reasonably good repair, and which doesn’t contain inappropriate language. You have plenty of places outside of work to express your individuality in more outandish dress.

IMHO, it is mostly largely to two factors:

  1. Women are likelier to complain “discrimination” than men, as pointed out abovethread;
  2. Women’s clothing is a lot harder to define than men’s. Men’s is just shirt, pants, shoes, and a tie. Women’s has a much wider array and hence women can take advantage of that.

I worked at a place where almost everybody wore jeans or business casual. We got a new HR director and she said we could wear jeans on Fridays. :slight_smile: We all got a good laugh out of that. the main change was that she started wearing jeans on Fridays. The rest of the week she almost never wore pants, she wore a dress or skirt.

I belong to 2 credit unions. At the bigger one people still dress up with jackets, ties, etc. The smaller one it’s business casual.

I have worn essentially the same thing at work for the last 21 years… T-shirt and jeans.

Now that I’ll be turning 40 this year, I’ve decided to up my game, and started wearing button-down shirts, nice trousers, a spiffy wool waistcoat and matching wool tie.

The reactions over the last couple of weeks have been hilarious.