I thank God I’ve always worked in IT or academia, where really nobody cares all that much.
On the other hand, if I honestly had to choose between suit, tie and clompy black leather shoes all year versus a pencil-skirt and (shudder) heels, I guess I’ll be in the bloke uniform
I worked for a rather conservative company. When I started in the late 70s, you could not eat in the company cafeteria unless you were wearing a tie (if you were a man). Women had to wear either dresses or suits (pants or skirt), but no pants with mismatched tops were allowed. Panty hose were required for bare legs. We went to business casual in the 90s on Fridays which soon became business casual all the time after a few years. This was all last century. By the time I retired, people wore pretty much what they wanted if they didn’t have a public-facing position. I’m not much impressed by companies with very strict dress codes – implies ossification in other areas.
Part of the problem is that while a man’s suit has an easy female equivalent ( a woman’s suit) and a jeans , polo , sneakers dress code works for either gender, the one in the middle is difficult. What exactly is the female equivalent to non-jean pants, a shirt and a tie? I’ll be damned if I know- but if my male coworkers are wearing that and I wear a suit, I look overdressed. If I wear slacks or a skirt and a long-sleeved blouse, I either look like I’m a middle aged woman from the 80s or underdressed or both - and I definitely look like support staff. I usually end up going with slacks, a sleeveless blouse and a sweater (which is why the blouse has to be sleeveless)
For business casual women can wear khaki,blue,black,etc pants and a golf type short sleeve shirt with a collar , the same as a guy . In colder months they can wear long sleeve golf type shirt.
Women are actually discriminated against, which might have something to do with your first point.
This is a cogent point. Women struggle mightily to figure out how to look “attractive yet professional”. Men only have to look professional.
Indeed. Indeed.
It’s long been a source of irritation to me, although I’m also well aware that many many women have felt that they had no choice but to shave their legs, show up every day in female suitdress and hose and office heels, adorned with lipstick and light makeup. No pants for them, no flat heeled shoes. So while the dress code thing has pissed me off, I’m not so sure the women have had an easier time of it.
Having said that, I’m being picked up for a full-time permanent gig doing data entry, good pay (should rise to my standard FileMaker Pro developer level after one year, in fact), and they’re totally ok with me showing up to work in a denim skirt, I will never have to wear a tie, and the Arrow shirt company is just going to have to get their money from someone else 'cuz I need not wear a button-down ironed shirt.
They really can’t. A woman in that outfit generally looks like a retail worker, because that’s pretty much the only context where women wear that outfit. And if you are busy, golf shirts are a nightmare . . .either you have to wear one that fits like a tent, or one that is inappropriately tight across the bust.
The OP’s description of what men are expected to wear puts me in mind of what we all wore back when I worked at a Big 8 accounting firm starting in the late 1980s. The difference was: women were expected to dress up to the same degree. It was rare for a female to even wear a dress versus a skirt suit. Hosiery was de regueur also. There was one older partner who was really bent out of shape on the topic; one woman told me that when he interviewed her for a job, he said “you WILL be shaving your legs, won’t you?”; he would tell people they could only wear skin-colored hose (e.g. no navy or black even if those coordinated with your outfit), and woe to you if he caught you walking into the office in sneakers even if you changed to your pumps the minute you got to work.
Luckily I didn’t interact with him, work-wise, and he never caught me coming in wearing sneakers (this was downtown DC - and at a very minumum, you’d be walking from a parking garage and most likely from a Metro station). I guess he thought we were supposed to find a place to sit down outside the building and change our shoes. Dunno what he’d have done if a woman showed up wearing a pair of men’s dress shoes.
In fact it wasn’t until the mid 1990s that women even routinely wore slacks to work - and by that, I mean a suit-type thing, not a pair of chinos. I never did until I came back to work after my son was born - that would have been 1995. We went “business casual” in the mid 90s, though some women did take it a bit too far and wore things that were much like what the OP described - barely covering the essentials.
So… that was rambling, but we’ve never seen the same dichotomy between men and women that the OP describes.
These days, I’ll even see people at the corporate office in jeans (not at the client; we’re business casual there). For an employer that had, for many decades, an image of “all white men, crew cuts, white shirt, suit, tie”, it’s quite a change.
You should also be fearful of a male employee doing the same. If you tagged me for being tardy while ignoring the same behavior from women I would complain to HR about disparate treatment. It’s not unheard of for employees to claim they’re being targeted or “picked on” when in reality their manager just wants them to follow the rules or do their work. If your HR department does have the spine to back your play then I wouldn’t bother disciplining anyone.
Lucky you. May son-in-law seems to have had the need for suits inoculated into him in law school.
Stewardesses did have uniforms often making them into sex objects. Sure. I’m talking about more traditional offices.
Just wanted to highlight this (my bolding). I hope everyone here who’s working for an old-school, male-dominated, appearance-obsessed company gets to work someplace that “considers people professional based on the work they do”.
That changed my life, and improved the quality of my work. Imagine walking into the office (or even working from home!) and worrying about how to do the best work you can for the firm’s clients, and *not *worrying about what your bosses think of you. It’s liberating.
Is there really no dress code? Can you show up in a clown nose and Borat mankini? If not, then you do have to worry about what your bosses think of you. People are always thinking something even when they do not say it.
My understanding is that even in places with very relaxed dress codes , you still have to worry about what your bosses (and other people) think of you. It’s just that they’ll think badly of you if you dress too formally rather than the reverse.
My gf is in an interesting situation. She works in advertising, is a VP and interacts with clients while overseeing a creative team. She dresses “fancy”, with pretty dresses, expensive shoes, etc. The creative people on her team wear whatever they want, ride bicycles (from a client), play ping-pong, smoke weed (in the bathroom), etc. Somehow it works.
Creative types are almost expected to be “quirky.”
The last time I visited my gf at work there were people wearing rollerblades, skating around and around the office (a huge, open area) playing roller derby.
The actual dress code at the last place I worked (15+ years) was delivered verbally by the owner and on a regular basis: Dress better than the client. This could be a bit tricky, since we often met new clients and had no idea how they would be dressing, but we managed.
I also have to mention that I have never found jeans and a tee (or golf shirt) to be as comfortable as khakis and a dress shirt. It seems like nearly everyone thinks of jeans as the absolute best, most comfortable, most casual, and least expensive type of men’s pants to wear. IME, khakis are more comfortable to move in, are better ventilated, and give me lots more flexibility if I have to stoop, crawl, bend over, or otherwise move around. The ones I buy are just as cheap as good jeans. I wear my khakis on all my days off.
Someone pointed out in a recent “Why are people in this 1910’s NYC street scene dressed so nicely?” thread that men’s business suits are basically informal lounge suits. That’s just what normal New Yorkers wore. So if people at such-and-such a firm are expected to wear them, my interpretation is not that they are considered more formal than what the women wear, it’s that (in the mind of the possibly not-young bosses) showing up to work in jeans is tantamount to showing up to the law office with a hard hat and pickaxe. Anyway, these types of fashions change fairly rapidly.