They wrinkle easy, so they have to be hung. No, it’s not a big deal really. I was just adding that along with the other things as tedious measures of dealing with dress clothes. I could have taken it further with having to actually button my shirt, make sure it was always tucked in, deal with the gig line, make sure the tie was not showing in the back, make sure the end of the tie was hidden in it’s little slot, be sure the tie knot was centered at all times… but that would be too much.
As for my other clothes, shirts in particular, I lay them flat in a stack on top of each other, fold the stack in half, then stick the lump in a drawer. When I want to pick a shirt I pull em out and pick accordingly. It’s simple and they don’t get wrinkled. Also gives me additional space in the closet for storage.
As for pants I just fold them in half and stack em in a drawer also. Jackets, sweaters, etc., I’ll hang… Though, I rarely ever touch any of that stuff. So they stay hidden in the closet. Too hot here day or night, year-round. Only come in handy when I travel.
Here’s the thing about the suit. It’s designed for a certain guy in mind. He is between 5’10 and 6’2 in height, of average build, and has a long, elegant neck. For the rest of us, suits are uncomfortable, need a lot of tailoring to look anywhere near good, and even well done, don’t actually accentuate those masculine characteristics 1920’s style death ray mentioned above.
Short guys, fat guys, muscular guys, stocky guys, men with bull necks, men who have pot bellies, skinny guys, etc, all have problems fitting into, and looking good in a suit. There are some options out there. For example, I wear a jacket and open collared shirt, no tie. I’m short with a big chest, broad shoulders and a bull neck. In that style I can look nice without being too uncomfortable. Buttoned up with a tie, I overheat quickly and look like a walking brick. The collar comes up too high and my beard covers what’s little left of my neck to see. Not elegant at all.
There is a revolution coming in the business world as younger gen x-ers and y’s assume positions in the marketplace. it’s going to take a while though.
As for the poster who said you ought to change your hairstyle since people were trying to tell you something, fuck that spaghetti. The most attractive thing a man can possess is not his haircut, or clothing, it is self-confidence and good self-esteem. If you like the way you look, then you’ll find people who like you for you, not for a facade you put up for them to enjoy.
Well, yeah. Every time you put on an outfit, you’re sending a particular message. T-shirts and ballcaps send one message–a perfectly fine message for a ballgame or a Saturday summer afternoon. Suits send another message–a message that says, “I know what is culturally appropriate in specific business and social contexts. I am savvy enough to follow those codes. And, by the way, check out my broad shoulders, deep chest and slim waist.”
Now you’re just being silly. As I wrote above, different outfits are appropriate in different contexts. Wearing a suit to backyard barbecue would make you look like a bit of an ass–no matter how good you looked physically in it–just like wearing a Hawaiian shirt and shorts to a funeral would make you look like a bit of an ass.
I like how men look in suits. That doesn’t mean that suits are desirable on all occasions, just as it’s not desirable on all occasions for me to wear evening gowns. And the fact that I like how men look in suits is not a character judgment on you for not liking to wear them. Plenty of other women think that men look best in jeans and t-shirts, or khakis and sweaters, or black leather jackets.
What are some concrete examples of the casual clothing that people who wear suits or t-shirts and jeans are missing out on? I was assuming you are a t-shirt and jeans guy. You talk about “regular clothing”, which as near as I can tell means not a suit and tie? I’m really not sure what you mean specifically.
I don’t know about that. Just dark colours can make large people look less large. You need to have the right suit though, I’m no fashion guru and don’t know the rules on what cut you should wear to suit your body shape but the fact is that guys tend to look pretty sharp in a suit. You may never look as good as the dude you described, but the chances are you look a hell of a lot better in a suit than you do in cargo shorts and a t-shirt. I don’t really have a dog in this fight, I live in the tropics and it is rare to see people wearing a suit in this part of the world, but when the OP is saying he gets complimented when he’s wearing a suit he doesn’t seem to get that suits are designed to look good on men and he’s getting compliments because he looks good, not because of some traditional idea of what people should wear.
It’s that, this code limits people to specific articles in most situations, as listed previously. It would be nice to change things up a little while still appearing professional. As grey_ideas was saying in post 40… that in the UK the business attire is pretty relaxed. They aren’t expected to wear a specific outfit, but are just expected to dress to have the same appeal.
People are trying to change this, yes. But it will take time to really be noticeable in society. As AcidLamp said, there is a revolution coming with younger people being apart of the business world. Most of these younger people are the one’s who typically enjoy changing things up a bit since they are more aware of what is on the market and are not afraid to try new things.
My regular style can consist of several variations that include mixing business attire. Personally, I’d say my style is a mix of a surf/urban/Euro/prep. An example, I dunno, tonight I had a snack at Big City Diner. I wore a pair of white Puma’s, something resembling a dress shoe, a pair of solid color shorts, more on the lightish brown side, and a silver long sleeved collared shirt from Deisel with the arms rolled up a little. Just something uncommon and shows I’m not afraid to take a risk. I could have easily thrown on a t-shirt and jeans but enjoy having a unique appeal. It makes me feel good, which is what’s most important.
The funny things is that all of the guys there were wearing a t-shirt and jeans. Go figure. And it’s not uncommon. The majority of guys wear a t-shirt and jeans. That trend is also going through a phase of slight changes.
And I didn’t say that this attire is horrible looking (though, in some cases it can be), but that’s it’s just been used forever, over 100 years, and I’d like to see a change. Looking farther back in history you’ll see that this “trend” of professional/business attire has changed many times. The trend stays around for many, many years. I’m just wondering when this current trend will change and curious of what it will change to.
So that’s why they wear the same thing to weddings, funerals, dinners, special events, church?
It doesn’t put you in a group at all. It just shows that you are obedient to the code. The kid who works at McDonalds may very well dress this way only for church. That doesn’t mean he’s any way affiliated to the business world.
I agree here slightly, as I’ve been viewing everyone’s opinions. Though, these comments come a lot when I’m not wearing a jacket, which would kind of eliminate that whole appeal the suit has.
Turtleneck, blazer, and fitted pants, ala In Like Flint or Man From Uncle.
An earlier poster is correct with regards to different collars and such. Aim for a mix of super-spy and Doctor Who. There are lots of options where you can stand out and still look sharp.
In additional to those things, it’s because suits, assuming you bought the right size, fit and compliment the body much better than most comfort clothes.
Yes, I have addressed this. Though, the “code” opposes this type of modification. In some situations it is all right, but the majority of the time you’ll get that weird stare if you try pulling something like this off. Europe is becoming more lax with their business appeal but I’m guessing the U.S. will follow this trend for at least another 50 years.
So would the both of you fall under the category of “Regardless of a man’s physical appearance, I can always find him to be attractive in a suit”?
I’m considering more and more to just never wear normal clothes again, ever. I’m baffled at how attractive women see this image.
Should a man not be wearing the jacket, would it still be attractive to you? Just a man wearing a longsleeve button up, a tie, slacks, and dress shoes?.. Or does the form and appeal of the jacket on top of that take the cake?
I would say the suit adds points, but isn’t the end all and be all. Say it adds 2 points on a 10 point scale. Someone starting at a 2 is only gonna get to a 4 with the ‘suit bonus’ (for lack of a better term)
Speaking just for myself, the jacket is nice but not needed to help a guy look good.
I’ve always felt sorry for guys walking on the hot streets of the city in August at lunchtime wearing their obviously, very uncomfortable business uniforms.
Since the OP lives in Hawaii, I imagine he would be much more comfortable in thinner weight, lighter colored clothing than what traditional western business dress allows.
I don’t get the need for a tie at all. I figure that the tie evolved from the cravat or scarf, but to be considered less than fully dressed up without a tie - it doesn’t make sense to me.
No. Some men look good in suits, others do not. What I said was that if I go out of my way to mention to a guy that he looks good in a suit, it’s usually a form of encouragement, because his general apparel leaves a lot to be desired.
Suits can help emphasize a strong, angular build, or help create one where it is lacking.
That said, there are plenty of ways a guy can look perfectly presentable without a suit. It’s a matter of dressing to fit your body shape and proportions. The biggest thing about dressing is not style or fashion, but fit! If more people would just wear things that are clean, well cared for, and appropriately fit then fashion would be a lot easier.
Perhaps your regular wardrobe isn’t very flattering to you, and people are trying to helpfully steer you toward more structured, tailored styles of clothing? A suit is probably the best gateway to clothing with more structure and form than say, a closet full of t-shirts and polos.
I don’t really agree with this supposition. Things have already changed. When I was in college, our career services office advised engineers attending the annual career fair that they needn’t wear a suit and tie. Students looking for business jobs were expected to wear a suit, and for decades an engineer would have too. Some people might find this to be very bad advice but it was just a reflection on what the attendees were telling the career counselors - that the engineers who were manning their booths weren’t interested in seeing potential employees dress up to meet them.
Even in business, very few jobs require business attire most days. I think you implied in another post, in as many words, that I was probably starved for creativity due to dressing in a suit and being surrounded by people who dress in suits. But I’m not! I don’t wear a suit for work and nobody around me does.
I guess I must still not be getting your point, since in my experience, most people don’t wear suits and ties regularly and don’t hold them in particularly high regard. If your goal is to look dressy, and you’re a man, you need a suit and tie. Otherwise in 2008, I don’t think many people accord the suit much importance.
Do you agree there’s a difference between trying to have your own look, a creative look, all while looking quite good, and trying to look formal, dressed up, and also looking quite good? I’ve never heard anyone say they need to be the same thing.
I agree that ties suck out loud. I hate the feeling of voluntarily wearing a noose. IIRC, ties are basically a vestigial pre-colonial English scarf-type accessory, but they were only popular because they served a function – to keep your neck warm. Modern ties do no such thing. So why do we still wear them and demand that business society keep them?
Although I ride a desk 9 hours a day, on occasion I actually have to roll up my sleeves and do some manual labor- lift boxes and what not. Having a tie is very uncomfortable and having a thick neck not only causes it to loosen a bit but also gets the knot out of alignment. Most times I just leave it loose and have the top collar button undone, but I think this just looks more slovenly than relaxed. I cannot stand to have my shirt and tie choking me.
Oh, and even on hot days, my job requires me to wear the tie. This is another issue I have. I sweat a lot. A LOT. On hot days, I get no ventilation, as I have: Collar buttoned, long sleeves buttoned, shirt tucked in, belt fastened. Basically, the only spot I have open are my pant cuffs. Not much use there. Even if I roll up my sleeves, it is still not that much help.
This uniform sucks. I did spend several years in the army and wore a uniform that was much more comfy. Although at first I had to get used to wearing two shirts (BDU top and brown t-shirt), it was still more comfortable than a shirt and tie.
One more thing: I like a bargain, and have found a very nice brand/style of shirt that is quite affordable which I can usually get on sale (or with my internet discount) for about $25. Most ties I find (retail) start around $40. Why is a garment that requires so little material more expensive than a long-sleeve shirt? Damn conspiracy by the garment people.
Come to think of it, that’s the reason - its a conspiracy! :eek:
I think we’re are all missing a bigger picture here. The OP has said that he tends to judge a man’s creativity by his clothing, and he wants to be judged that way, too. In describing what he wore the other night (which was confusing to me because I thought Pumas were tennis shoes, and seriously… brown shorts and a silver shirt?)he said that he chose what he wore specifically to send a message. “Just something uncommon and shows I’m not afraid to take a risk. I could have easily thrown on a t-shirt and jeans but enjoy having a unique appeal. It makes me feel good, which is what’s most important.” So every time he gets dressed, he’s trying to create an image or impression that HE would be impressed by.
Most guys don’t care that much about their clothes, in my experience, that they think about making a statement with them. Be decently covered, reasonably coordinated and in style, and appropriate to the setting seems to be more the message most guys send out. I don’t think, in a room full of similarly suited lawyers or businessmen, they are using clothes as the litmus test of any other man’s worth or ability. In fact, I think in some situations, a man who obviously has spent an incredible amount of thought on his clothes and hair that very morning, may be viewed as just a bit too self-absorbed. People who regularly wear suits do not get as caught up in surface qualities, to a certain extent. It’s what you say and do that makes the impression. In effect, the suit creates a level playing field on which each man gets judged on his true abilities, not his fashion sense.
Oh, and never did I mean to imply that he should change his hairstyle because of what others say…I just meant that perhaps the style he had chosen was not as flattering as it could be…but since he feels it more important to be creative and unusual, then he should continue doing what makes him feel good. Just accept that it may not be the most attractive thing for others to look at!
Of course, if the OP works in the fashion industry, then all bets are off.
Grow up and stop with the “I’m such a creative unique snowflake routine”, you are starting to sound very foolish.
Looking in my closet I have over 20 different dress shirts that are appropriate with a suit. Fortunately I have found these things called “stores” that sell “fashionable attire” for men. You may want to look into it.
Huh… I have those in my closet. I better go throw out the navy blue, olive, and the half-dozen or so natural shades of brown in there though. Fortuantely with the limited color palette most designers play with fabric textures and patterns to provide a great deal of variety to create unique looks.
I’m going to need a trash can since I’m having to throw away so many shirts, pants, and now apparently 16 pair of shoes in my closet so that I only have black and brown remaining. Good bye multitude of dress shoes.
sigh See topic of pants and dress shirts above. There are more than black and dark gray out there. In addition to colors, the material, cut, number of buttons, pocket placement/style, etc., all allow for a large variety of “looks” and messages depending upon what and how you match it to the rest of the outfit. Of course that is a lie as there are only 2 colors of shoes, 4 colors of shirts, and 3 colors of pants.
Huh? There are vast colors and designs but… what again? Oh yeah, that is right in your world there are only 4 shirt colors so the literally HUNDREDS of men’s ties carried in most stores are all just for decoration and not actual sale cause there is no way they’d match any of The Big 4 Colors.
Buckles, widths, stitching, material… again all variables that can inject creativity into “dressing up”.
Okay, that is going to far. I’ll throw away tons of clothing to conform to your definition of what my choices are when dressing up but I’ll be damned if I’m putting a part in my hair. I will also apologize in advance for when my fabulously gay hairdresser shows up at your home to slap you for implying that he is very limited in anything but especially in creating hair styles.
Listen, put down the Sears catalog and I dunno… as much as I laugh at this magazine… pick up a GQ or something. Your view is completely skewed on the options available when “dressing up”. If you don’t like doing it, then don’t do it. Just stop the immature and ignorant rambling about how drab and limiting it is to your unique and oh-so-creative personality.
