Buying a car in Australia

[Francis_Vaughan]

@Princhester

You don’t know and don’t live in NSW so you assume he doesn’t know? How does that work?

He refused to say how it worked.

From the brochure I note that merely posting the requisite forms is not only possible but expected.

Yup. I’m wrong on that one. Somewhere else there is contradictory information - I’m looking at the WA department web site as well.

The form does not require that you assert that the car is garaged in WA, it asks: “Is the vehicle garaged in another State or Territory?” And the answers are entirely the opposite way around to what you say: it is if you answer “yes” that you cannot register the vehicle in WA.

That is odd - the form I dowloaded from WA says “Will this vehicle be kept primarily in WA (see ‘Garaging Address’ on back of form for explanation)?” We clearly have different forms. Mine is the transfer of registration form, MR9.

the vehicle is not kept primarily in any State or Territory.

Yup, I read the act before. I assume this is for car rental companies and trucking companies that have offices in WA. The form I have has no mechanism for saying “not garaged in any state” thus I would assume there is a different form for companies needing to so register vehicles. You need three answers, not two on the form to supply this.

If you are going to make detailed and vociferous assertions in GQ, you could at least make some effort to get it right.

I did. I actually did some significant legwork. I have had to do a lot of this before, so I had some idea of what to expect. Indeed, I have already read the act and downlowed the forms. I misread one form. The rest I stand by.

The bottom line remains. There was an assertion that the WA government exlicitly turns a blind eye to illegal transfers of registration so as to gain additional revenue from tourists. Now so far this has had absolutely no substantiation. It is still also not yet described how such a transfer of registration is effected from Sydney. I seems that there is now a suggestion that the WA governemnt are happy to accept a transfer of ownership of a car registered in WA, but sold to a foreign tourist that occurs on the other side of the continent, where both tourist and car may never come to WA. Now, maybe they are. That would be interesting. I have outlined what I see as some significant issues in this. Not the least of which is the significant risk the WA governement insurance company takes from such a practice. What I have not heard of is any citation that shows how it works beyond “I know someone who did it.” I have looked for advice to tourists, which don’t mention anything of the kind, and looked for complaints from other states about the WA practice. Maybe they are about, but I can’t find any.

In the end, the thread started with implicit advice, that a cheap way for a tourist to get a car in Oz, is to avoid registering it in NSW, and to stick to potentially risky and dodgey mechanisms that involve buying and selling WA registered cars. I think the risks are worthy of clarification.

If this is happening, I would be most amused to learn the precise details. Such things I find quite fascinating. It adds to the patina of life. But “I had a mate that did it” or “I have heard of people that did it” is one only step away from an urban legend. The reality is worthy of understanding. If anyone actually knows, I would be really interested to hear.

[Princhester]

@Francis_Vaughan

He refused to say how it worked.

You were the one asserting that what he said he had personal experience of, was legally and administratively not possible. Your assertions were quite positively wrong in at least one respect. In the other key respect (garaging) the forms are (being as kind to your position as I can be) not encouraging of vehicles not primarily kept in WA but carefully leave the door open to vehicles not garaged elsewhere. I’d be more understanding of your failure to understand the implications of the forms if it wasn’t that you now admit you had read the underlying legislation, which made the position quite clear. You nonetheless seem to have chosen to ignore (and pointedly not bring to this thread’s attention) the fact that the legislation specifically enables precisely what **coremelt **was saying is often done.

If anyone actually knows, I would be really interested to hear.

Well, as the punchline to the joke goes: “My son, I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect me to do?”

[Kiwi_Fruit]

@Martini_Enfield

You do not want to drive any appreciable distance in Australia- especially not in QLD- without air conditioning. And unless you buy some sort of FM transmitter that actually works for your MP3 player, it’s going to be a very dull drive without music.

On the other hand, you can just rent a car, get a nice new vehicle with all the mod cons, all the registration, maintenance, and insurance hassles are someone else’s problem, and all you have to do is fill it with petrol and maybe top up the wiper fluid every now and then.

Doesn’t always work, especially if you’re off the beaten track. I rented a Pajero in Cairns and drove to Normanton via Mt Surprise, Einasleigh, Forsayth, Georgetown and Croydon. The air con conked out between Mt Surprise and Einasleigh. We stayed the night in Georgetown and got the local garage to check it out. After first spending 1/2 hr just opening the bonnet because the catch only had one bolt, they found the electric clutch on the compressor had shit itself. They didn’t have parts and besides which the air con repair man came once a week from Charters Towers or some such place and he wasn’t due for 3 days. They ended up taking the belt off so at least we weren’t further subject to the horrible screeching from the compressor. Driving over 1000km in FNQ’s outback without a/c in 35 - 40 degrees is not that much fun. Fortunately the trip was such a blast that the memories of things such as the concrete model of a 28’ croc in Normanton, the Purple Pub, and barra and chips in Karumba far outweigh the lack of a/c.

[Francis_Vaughan]

@Princhester

Y You nonetheless seem to have chosen to ignore (and pointedly not bring to this thread’s attention) the fact that the legislation specifically enables precisely what **coremelt **was saying is often done.

I still think that that clause is for the specific purpose of allowing trucking companies and car rentals. The fact that the form did not allow a transfer of registration to provide that option was I felt enough to warrant that interpretation. Maybe I was wrong. (I did nearly post exactly what you are complaining I didn’t, but then felt that in fact I would be incorrect to draw the conclusion you have - that it is intended to allow tourists.)

Again, the only form I have - the MR9 - which is the transfer of registration form, does not provide a way of saying that the car is “not garaged in any state” You have a form that does allow this - can you link to which it is? That might help settle it. If it is the initial application for registration it isn’t the right one for the question at hand.

[Francis_Vaughan]

OK, this is my last post on the subject.

So, the simple answer is to ask. So I rang the WA department of motor vehicles.

You must have a WA residential address to register or have registration transfered to your name. If you do not have such an address, i.e. the address is fake, the transfer of registration is “invalid.”

The person I spoke to confirmed that in such a case the car would not be covered for 3rd party insurance.

She also confirmed that there was no mechanism to register a car to a person in WA who did not currently have a WA residential address. The car, and owner may indeed travel around Australia, and the car may not have a WA garaging address, but still only if the registrant has a WA address.

Travelers do register cars, and a backpackers hostel is considered a valid residential address. So long as it is in WA.

I asked about the specific scenario of a tourist arriving in Sydney and buying a car at Kings Cross that had WA registration, travelling up the coast and leaving the country without ever setting foot in WA. They do not allow it. The car must be registered in the state in which the buyer resides. In this case NSW.

Two boats and a helicopter.

[Princhester]

You may very well be correct that the specific legislative provision was inserted with trucking companies etc in mind. However, last I heard courts interpret legislative provisions as meaning what they say. However, I note you decided not to reveal what the legislation said on the basis that it was irrelevant, as long as you assumed it didn’t mean what it said. The fact that a plain reading of what it said appeared to totally validate what the person you were arguing with was saying was, I am sure, totally irrelevant.

Again, the only form I have - the MR9 - which is the transfer of registration form, does not provide a way of saying that the car is “not garaged in any state” You have a form that does allow this - can you link to which it is? That might help settle it. If it is the initial application for registration it isn’t the right one for the question at hand.

I have found no form that provides a way of saying that the car is not garaged in any state, and have never asserted to the contrary. It is not entirely uncommon for government forms and bureaucracy to fail to easily permit people to do what legislation permits.

Interestingly, earlier you asserted that:

The WA form specifically requires that you assert that the car is garaged in WA. In fact there are two boxes - one for “yes” - one for “no”. Next to them is a note - if you tick “no” you can’t transfer the registration.

…but you say the only form you have is the MR9, but there is no such assertion required by the MR9, and there is no such note appearing in it. So quite where the heck your allegation came from I don’t quite know. I do note that Form MR186 (to which I’ve already linked) does contain a question that requires an assertion about where the vehicle is garaged (except framed in the negative), and does contain a note as you say, except with the yes and no reversed.

I did think perhaps you had access to the MR186 (it is after all on the internet) and that it was the source of your above assertion, albeit somewhat garbled. But you say that you don’t have the MR186, so that can’t be it.

It may well be that the WA government does not actively encourage registration of “vagrant” vehicles in WA, and the forms have a lacunae accordingly. This of course in no way invalidates the coremelt’s key assertion namely that rightly or wrongly there is an aspect of WA legislation which allows vagrant vehicles to be registered. Whether this is encouraged by WA’s registration forms is hardly the point. Particularly where it is you that is asserting dire legal consequences and consequent insurance problems.

[Princhester]

@Francis_Vaughan

Travelers do register cars, and a backpackers hostel is considered a valid residential address.

So coremelt is correct

I asked about the specific scenario of a tourist arriving in Sydney and buying a car at Kings Cross that had WA registration, travelling up the coast and leaving the country without ever setting foot in WA. They do not allow it. The car must be registered in the state in which the buyer resides. In this case NSW.

I am unable to find any legislative support for this position. It is not clear what the position is as to persons who do not reside in any state. It is highly probable that any minimal form of agency would qualify.

[Francis_Vaughan]

@Princhester

So coremelt is correct

Nope he isn’t. He specifically said this was possible with a WA registered car bought in Sydney. That isn’t true. I never siad that a tourist was not allowed to travel around Oz with a correctly registered car. What I argued against was legality and advisability of what appeard to be an overt system designed to avoid vehicle inspections on old cars and to reduce registration fees by trading in WA registered cars outside of WA. Even coremelt agreed that it was probably illegal.

I am unable to find any legislative support for this position. It is not clear what the position is as to persons who do not reside in any state. It is highly probable that any minimal form of agency would qualify.

Well that isn’t what the department said. If you are offering a legal opinion then I’m all ears. It is starting to sound as if you are. Certianly sounds as if you are offering an opinion that the 3rd party insurance is valid.

I cut and pasted from MR9. What else am I supposed to do? Page 3, half way down. On the back it says this: *Garaging Address (base of operation):
In accordance with section 17(2)(d) of the Road Traffic Act 1974, vehicles cannot be licensed in Western Australia if they are garaged in another state. You
may be required to produce documentary proof of this. * I find it hard to imagine this is in any way difficult to find.
You are correct that my initial posting was a garbled version of MR186. I skimmed past it earlier and jumbled my recollection with MR9. However, as I note later, MR186 isn’t the transfer of registration application, so although it seems to allow a multi-state use, the transfer application does not. I agree, possibly dopey. But it is what the form says.

And that really is it. It is fun for a while, but I need to get a life.

[Princhester]

I know what the form says. What I don’t understand is why you said it said something else.