you posted ‘Then again I don’t really think I’m scum of the earth and what not, just because I bought something some dude stole… all in all I’m actually a pretty decent person… but oh well… to you I’m just a petty thief right?’
Well I did say to you ‘I feel there’s a moral person inside you, and I hope my exaggerated example will bring them out.’
Also: how do you tell someone’s a ‘pretty decent’ person? Isn’t it by their actions?
You posted ‘imho there’s a huge difference morally between buying a stolen laptop, and going into a bank and putting a gun to someone’s head and demanding money… then again… maybe that’s just me…’
Agreed, the threat of violence makes quite a difference. But suppose you break into the bank at night and steal money without meeting anyone. To me, that’s the same morally as buying the stolen laptop.
How about this: you buy a stolen laptop, then discover there are medical records on it that are vital to save a life. Does this bother you at all?
You posted ‘would you let me blame it on being young, ignorant and naive?’
No, unless you’re saying you were brought up by bad parents. :rolleyes:
hey, we’re online simultaneously! (it’s 23.10 where I am)
you posted ‘are/were you on a debate team, if not you missed a possible calling.’
Thank you!
Actually I’m a teacher (you can probably tell because I correct postings I quote).
you posted ‘by the way, my “tossup” line meant that for those people who are in the middle (not dead for it or against it) are going to go either way, depending on the situation. I should have worded that better.’
It’s an interesting point - but I can’t see how anyone can be undecided. How can you NOT KNOW you’re buying stolen goods?
Well, you said you knew what you were doing, so ignorant and naive really wouldn’t apply, now would they?
As for being young, well, that might work. If you’re under about 12 years old.
Actually what frosts me about this whole line of reasoning is the “everyone else would do it, so why shouldn’t I” reasoning behind it. Do you want the world to be a better place than it is now? Then do what you know is right and don’t fall back on that kind of reasoning do justify doing something you know was wrong to begin with.
glee, how coincidental! by the way, it’s nice to know there are some intelligent teachers out there, sometimes i have my doubts
on to my post
haven’t you seen those sappy afterschool specials and episodes of Family Matters where a teenager finds this great offer on the greatest comic book/car stereo/priceless collectable plate…whatever. well anyway, they usually get taken in by an ingenious con man and since there so excited about getting what they’ve always wanted, they don’t bother being suspicious. somehow, they always find out there great new comic book/car stereo/plate is stolen, usually from the police, and their father says “just do what you think is right son.” and of course they give it back and learn a valuable life lesson
anyway, my point is that some people are actually are taken in by the possibilities of having what they’ve always wanted, and somehow overlook the obvious. is there something in the code of hammurabi about buying stolen goods? if it’s as worse as stealing there, then i just might have to change my views on the subject.
you posted ‘By the way, it’s nice to know there are some intelligent teachers out there, sometimes I have my doubts.’
that’s going straight on the staffroom noticeboard
you continued ‘haven’t you seen those sappy afterschool episodes … where a teenager finds this great offer on the greatest whatever…they usually get taken in by an ingenious con man and since they’re so excited about getting what they’ve always wanted, they don’t bother being suspicious. Somehow, they always find out there great new comic book/car stereo/plate is stolen (usually from the police) and their father says “just do what you think is right son.” and of course they give it back and learn a valuable life lesson.’
Well I’m in England, but yes indeed, we have those morality lessons in our soap operas.
you said ‘anyway, my point is that some people are actually are taken in by the possibilities of having what they’ve always wanted, and somehow overlook the obvious.’
No, I think greed takes over
next ‘is there something in the code of Hammurabi about buying stolen goods? if it’s as worse as stealing there, then I just might have to change my views on the subject.’
Hammurabi huh? It’s nice to know there are some intelligent students out there, sometimes I have my doubts.
Unfortunately I only remember something from Hammurabi about ‘if a house collapses, execute the architect.’
But surely you can see that buying stolen goods is wrong - whether or not it’s enshrined in stone?
Tens of thousands of laptops are stolen every year. The great majority are sold for a couple hundred dollars at the most. For the thief, the value is a couple hundred dollars. For the rightful owner it is worth what he paid for it plus the value of all the information stored in it which, usually, is much more. Months of work disappear and lives are ruined so a thief can get $200.
When my home was burglarized all they got was an old answering machine (street value: $0) but The cost to me to repair the broken door was quite a bit more, not to mention the disruption to my life as I was half way round the world when I found out.
Thiefs who steal stuff to sell exist only for the simple reason that there are people who buy the stuff. Those people are just as culpable for the damage done.
The thief who steals a wallet to get $20 does huge damage as he steals irrepleaceable items (like photos) and replacing documents is a major disruption to the victim’s life.
And if you don’t know it’s stolen it’s not as bad.
But if you do know it’s stolen it’s bad.
I like to number things, and shall continue doing so; there is no reason for this.
The Buying Stolen Goods Chikki-Family Anecdote:
Daddychikki, Mommychikki and Sisterchikki went to New York City with Sisterchikki’s church youth group when Sis was in high school and Racin was in grade school. (Racin got left home for a week with her gramma.)
In New York City, Daddy met a man on a street corner selling a video camera in the box for twenty dollars.
Daddy being pretty naive, he paid the man and took the camera home.
Upon opening it, the Chikkis discovered it was a box of rocks.
OK, so it wasn’t really buying stolen goods. But in spirit it was, right? Because if there had been a camera in there, it would have been stolen.
The Goods Being Stolen Chikki-Family Anecdote:
I had my purse lifted when I was in the mall with my sister last summer. It had all my school shopping money (about $200) in it, along with my permit, car/house/work keys, address/phone # book, and my favorite shade of lipstick.
I never found it. That’s what really pisses me off. If somebody had taken the money and shoved the purse somewhere, where security could find it and return it to me, I wouldn’t be as pissed, because I wouldn’t have had to’ve gotten all my keys replaced, spent an hour in the DMV arguing about how I need a replacement permit (they thought I was trying to do something devious), asked all my friends for their mailing addresses again, and tried to find a replacement lipstick for that discontinued color.
A Return To The Numbering System For No Apparent Reason:
6. Would I buy stolen goods? Probably, if it was something I really wanted. Well, not a laptop. But a TV, or some kind of cooking equipment for my dorm/apartment? Yeah.
Would I feel guilty afterwards? Incredibly much so.
Would I do anything about it? Probably not.
Or would I just let my teenage American apathy take over? Yes.
Is that good/an excuse/anything but a sad-but-true observation? No.
And if you don’t know it’s stolen it’s not as bad.
But if you do know it’s stolen it’s bad.’
See my earlier post;
‘I bought this stuff at an incredibly cheap price. I got no receipt, no manual, no warranty. The guy who sold it didn’t offer any refunds (actually he didn’t give me his name) and insisted I paid cash. Of course I had NO IDEA it was stolen.’ :rolleyes:
you said ‘The Buying Stolen Goods Chikki-Family Anecdote:
In New York City, Daddy met a man on a street corner selling a video camera in the box for twenty dollars.
Daddy being pretty naive, he paid the man and took the camera home.
Upon opening it, the Chikkis discovered it was a box of rocks.
OK, so it wasn’t really buying stolen goods. But in spirit it was, right?’
Actually this has nothing to do with stolen goods. It has everything to do with greed and stupidity.
Daddy thought they were stolen (see above). He got tricked. This sort of thing goes on all the time. I have to stifle a laugh here - you now have some idea how it feels when someone steals from you because someone else will buy the stolen goods.
You posted ‘I had my purse lifted when I was in the mall with my sister last summer. It had all my school shopping money (about $200) in it, along with my permit, car/house/work keys, address/phone # book, and my favorite shade of lipstick.
I never found it. That’s what really pisses me off.’
and
'Would I buy stolen goods? Probably, if it was something I really wanted. ’
I expect someone bought your purse, because they wanted it…
glee, you said “I expect someone bought your purse, because they really wanted it.”
Oh yeah, cheap black vinyl purses from Wal*Mart that cost $5 new in the store and have broken zippers are very very hot items on the black market…
And yes, I’m fully aware I’m a hypocrite. I don’t need it pointed out to me item by item. It’s not something I’m proud of, but at least I’m honest enough to ADMIT it.
It’s good that you appreciate you’re a hypocrite. Since I strongly disapprove (like sailor) of buying stolen goods, I will happily point out your errors point by point.
OK, that’s the rant. I’m sure that (like Skümmet), you’re basically a decent person. I’m sorry you lost your purse. But surely you realise that almost all theft (from your purse through TV’s, video’s, computers to cars) is encouraged because there are people ready to buy the stolen goods cheap.
So don’t buy stolen goods (and one benefit is that you won’t get swindled by people selling you ‘stolen’ cameras, jewellery or perfume - which turn out to be worthless junk.
Oh, and you’ll feel better about yourself as well…
Sarcastic, as was I on the wal-mart purse black market.
Wouldn’t it be funny if there WAS a black market for wal-mart purses? I can’t imagine what for, though.
I can’t picture myself in a situation in which I would buy stolen goods (certainly not out of the back of somebody’s car, or on a street corner or something), but I say I probably would because I don’t KNOW. My fear of being swindled is actually worse than my fear of feeling bad about myself (apologetic capitalist scum, here, how do you do?)…
I don’t know about a market for ‘wal-mart purses’, but some ‘artist’ here in England just sold her bed (used sheets and all) for about $100,000. That may not be robbery, but someone’s being swindled…
You said ‘I can’t picture myself in a situation in which I would buy stolen goods (certainly not out of the back of somebody’s car, or on a street corner or something), but I say I probably would because I don’t KNOW.’
Jolly honest of you - again a good response
and ‘My fear of being swindled is actually worse than my fear of feeling bad about myself (apologetic capitalist scum, here, how do you do?)…’
Pleased to meet you. I’ve got a mortgage and 3 computers, so I expect to be up against the wall when the revolution comes. But I can assure you (and I’m guessing I’m older than you) that it’s a fine feeling to wake up and think ‘I’m honest’.
So maybe im a twat… but im a twat with a cheap computer so…
glee… you said… um… a whole lotta stuff actually…
Anyways all i can say is that though im not proud of what i did i dont regret it at all and dont feel all that guilty… and i can still wake up in the morning and feel honest… glee u said you judge people by their actions… that means you have to know more than one “action” before you can judge them you know… and as i said, even tho i bought stolen property, im actually a pretty decent person everything considered… then again u only know me from this thread so i guess… to most people here i look like a twat.
Am i the only one who has ever broken any law here? u seem like saints the lot of you!
You can “feel” anything you want. But you’re NOT honest. Your actions, and definitely your attitude, prove that to me 100%.
“Everything considered” … what? You admit that you are not ashamed of what you did, you are enjoying your stolen goods without guilt or shame, and you’d do it again. I think we are able to deduce from all of this that, “all things considered”, you are not really a very honest person.
You “look” exactly like what you want to look like on this board. If you wanted to “look” honest, you could have lied and said you wouldn’t do it again, and that you feel guilty. But you didn’t choose to do that. You are totally responsible for your own choice of words on this board. And I cannot believe that you can admit what you are admitting, and still expect us to think that you are, “all things considered”, pretty honest. :rolleyes:
Well, we are not saints, but most of us would not happily admit to thievery, proclaim we’d do it again, and still expect everyone to consider us “honest”.
you shouldnt judge people by single acts… Especially when all you know about them is that single act. But fair enough… yes… if i had lied and kept it secret… i would have appeared more honest onhere… but i dont belive in lying about myself to appear to be something im not…
Yes buying stolen property is dishonest…
No that doesnt make me a bad guy thru and thru…
Why do you care what we think, I’d like to know? We obviously have no reason to see you as anything other than a dishonest person. That’s exactly the impression you have willingly given here. So if you are not at all ashamed, why do you care what we think?
True enough. You’ve presented yourself as a person who recieves stolen goods, doesn’t feel guilty about it, and would do it again. You didn’t want to appear as something you’re not on this thread, so you have been honest about all these things. Right? Well, my dear, almost without exception, from what you’ve told us, you appear to be dishonest. So apparetnly that is what you are. You’ve basically admitted it.
“Through and through?” I wouldn’t know. Probably not. But you are off to a good start, if you admit you know it’s wrong, but you’d do it again.
You & I must move in different circles, pal. “generally accepted” ? Not around the people I choose to hang out with, thankyouverymuch. But thanks a bundle for your charming endorsement of our country. :rolleyes:
So if you hadn’t done it, someone else would’ve ? You’re smart enough to know the number of holes in that argument.
Oh, but most people have! That’s what makes things work - in Denmark and other places.
or perhaps, just perhaps, because they know what’s the honorable thing to do.
What you did was blatantly dishonest and if still “feel honest”, you’re setting your standards very low indeed. That’s a pity for you, more a pity for those around you.
Second, you posted ‘you shouldn’t judge people by single acts… especially when all you know about them is that single act.’
I judge on the evidence. You can say you’re tall/athletic/red-haired, but it’s just an impression until I see for myself.
If you mean ‘don’t totally condemn me until you know lots about me’, OK, I won’t say ‘you’re going to hell for buying the computer’. But it was dishonest.
Third, you posted ‘… but I don’t believe in lying about myself to appear to be something I’m not…’
Sorry, being honest about being a criminal doesn’t make you honest!
Some people would say you’re at heart a decent chap, who knows he did a bad thing, and is desperately seeking reassurance. Take the computer to the police (or better still, search it for evidence of the true owner). Tell them the story. Give it back. Then you’ll be an honest person.
Fourth ‘Yes, buying stolen property is dishonest…
No, that doesn’t make me a bad guy thru and thru…’
Of course it doesn’t. You’ve only admitted this one act. You haven’t robbed banks or murdered anyone. But it does make you a bad person. This is not a harmless crime. There was a victim.
Can I steal YOUR computer if I haven’t got the money to buy it? That wouldn’t make me a bad person, would it? :rolleyes:
Oh and you never answered this earlier point:
How about this: you buy a stolen laptop, then discover there are medical records on it that are vital to save a life. Does this bother you at all?
I’ve never had the opportuniy to purchase a stolen laptop, but if/when I do, I would like to think that I would be willing to shell out a couple of hundred bucks for the opportunity of identifying the previous owner of the merchandise & thereby returning it to him/her. Let’s say I do manage to buy a laptop from some street slime and do successfully identify the rightful owner and do return it to him.
Was I still wrong to have further oiled the criminal machine with my $200 even if it was to return ill gotten booty? If you were the owner of the laptop would you still think so?
Would it be crass of me to suggest to the owner that s/he compensate me the $200 once I explain what I did to procure/return his laptop? Gee, now that I’ve just read that sentence, I have to say yes it would be crass in addition to making me look like the thief who stole the thing in the first place. Scratch that idea.
What if, instead of contacting the owner, I contacted the police & explained what I had done and gave the laptop to them to return to the owner. Would they have some beef with me for buying a hot laptop?
Let’s say that once I buy the $200 laptop, I can’t come up with the identity of the owner by rummaging through the hard drive. What do I do then? Am I vindicated since my motives were altruistic?
All this comes from something I did a few weeks ago: I found a wallet on the street that was full of pictures & various cards as well as the owner’s driver license (no $$ or course). I didn’t give it a 2nd though and put it in one of those boxes you use to mail CDs and took it to the post office where they put 70-something cents of my postage on it and away it went to address I got from the license. I would hope that somebody would do this for me but maybe I am just being naive here, and this is a little different in that I didn’t have to buy the wallet from anybody. Never the less, $200 seems like a small price to pay to return somebody’s thousand-dollar laptop containing (possibly) priceless & irreplaceable data and I think I’d probably do it.
Sailor you live in DC so it might even be your laptop, filled with valuable data on solar energy studies Do or don’t I?
Well, our house was broken into in August, and our camera, camcorder and a bunch of rare CD’s were stolen. I would GLADLY have given you $200 to return the stuff - the camera with pictures of my kids with their grandma, the camcorder with the tape with the baby’s first attempt at crawling, etc - and you wouldn’t have even had to ask for the $$!!
As far as #3, I think I would skip mentioning that I’d paid for the laptop, I’d just turn it in. Likely nothing would happen to you if you confessed to buying it, but less hassle.
Skummet, I hope you’re happy with your stolen goods. Have you ever had anything stolen? Felt that horrible chill going down your back when you look at the empty shelves where your possessions were, and known someone invaded your house to take them? Had to deal with the police, the insurance company, and trying to buy replacements? Explaining to your three year old that we can’t make movies today since the camcorder’s gone?
But hey, you got a “great deal” so that’s all okay. No thought for someone else who you ,directly or not, deprived of their stuff that they worked hard to buy. And if it wasn’t for asses like you who are willing to buy stolen goods, there wouldn’t be a market for them, and maybe fewer people would have their stuff stolen.
