It is proving difficult to google for this, so I’m asking you guys.
I suggested to a friend of mine that some of the land along highway 5
in California can be bought off and an alternative private highway
could be built. I said that I’d gladly pay $30-$40 toll to travel on a
road that has a reasonable speed limit (160MPH or somesuch). Not that
my car would drive this fast, but if such freeways existed I’d buy a
car that could. Not to mention my more adventerous motorcycle riding
friends who are just dying to live on the edge.
Well, fun idea, but my friend replied that there was already several
private freeways in california along that same direction with
higher-than-normal speed limits (he mentioned 80mph, which seems oddly
low). I asked for a cite and he failed to provide one directing me
towards google. Now this seems dubious, since, well, I’ve never heard
of there being any long stretches of private roads in California.
Now I’m not interested in this just so I can drive fast. One can do
that at a race track if one was really determined. I’m interested
because SF <–> SD and things in between (San Simeon, Santa Barbara,
Los Angeles) are very important routes to me. Routes that I don’t make
because it’s a hassle to drive or fly. Flying is a problem because
with car rental and ticketing and airport delays, parking etc. it gets
slow and expensive. The driving isn’t as expensive and is much slower
than flying because of the abusive speed limit and roads not designed
for high speeds. (Oh and traffic).
So I guess it’s 2 general questions packed into 1:
Are there private highways like that?
If not, why not? I can’t be the only person who’d pay upwards of
$50(comfortable) or even $100 (pricey but still cheaper than flying)
to take a limitless private road to San Diego from San Franciso.
I don’t know how you could ever get insured to drive that fast on a road with a bunch of other people who may or may not have any special training, protective gear, or safety modifications to the car. I can’t imagine a private company having enough liability insurance to operate such a road.
Again, it’s not for the rich and not for fun (Nevada won’t cut it), I just want to get between NoCal and SoCal as fast and cheaply as possible. A $120 plane ticket + $80 three day car rental is more expensive than $100 toll + $75 of gas, and with stupid airport security and such takes about as long if you drive a fast enough car.
First and foremost, the company owning the road can subsidize initial insurance until this becomes commonplace. The reason we don’t have that many cars capable of traveling 160MPH safely is because it’s not a mass production goal of the entire industry yet (speed limits put a damper on that). It’s a catch-22, unless somebody starts a road. How much money do you think one would need? It might be over a billion, but it just might be worth it.
There are toll roads in California (Orange County, in particular) but the speed limits are normal, 65 or 70mph…I forget which. And I’m pretty sure they not private, but owned by the state.
Some years ago a guy in Colorado had the same idea as yours. He wanted to build a private toll road parallel to I-25, which would not only alleviate congestion but also allow for no speed limit, since speed laws only apply to public roads. The problem…which ultimately put the kibbosh on the whole deal…was liability. The state is automatically indemnified from lawsuits by some yahoo who wraps himself around a telephone pole at 165 mph. Private roads have no such lawsuit protection.
[QUOTE=KGSSome years ago a guy in Colorado had the same idea as yours. He wanted to build a private toll road parallel to I-25, which would not only alleviate congestion but also allow for no speed limit, since speed laws only apply to public roads.[/QUOTE]
Some points to note with regard to a private high speed highway:
[ul]
[li]First, the cost of building a highway from San Diego to San Francisco would be prohibitive in today’s economy. A billion dollars won’t get you from San Diego to Oceanside, considering construction costs alone. Bear in mind that this road is going to have to be built to a much higher standard with regard to flatness, crown, curvature, et cetera. [/li][li]Second, when the Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways (as it is now known) was created, most of the roads ran through rural or near-rural areas, and because of the pressing need for decentralization and mobilization in the face of a nuclear threat, claiming eminent domain was almost trivial–if the federal government wanted the land, it took it and paid what they considered “fair value”, something that could not be so easily done today.[/li][li]Third, have you ever driven the stretch of I-5 from Los Angeles to Livermore? Some parts of it are certainly flat enough to accomodate 100mph+ speeds, but other stretches would be hazardous, especially at night. And getting across the Los Padres range to Santa Barbara and San Simeon is pretty much out of the question, as far as heavy traffic at highway speeds. You can follow the 101, but it is even less suited to 100mph+ speeds, not to mention the thick fog than blankets the area frequently.[/li][li]Fourth, this hypothetically being a private road, how would you enforce any regulations you’d place upon drivers? CHP isn’t going to be partrolling the road, and would presumably have no jurisdiction regarding the enforcement of private regulations. Are you going to hire a private security force to patrol and maintain order? How will you verify car maintainence and suitability to drive at 160mph speeds?[/li][li]Fifth, liability issues have already been brought up; even with subsidising insurance, you are going to have to pay out for damages and injury; and at 160mph the accidents aren’t going to be fenderbenders.[/li][/ul]
In short, the feasability of building a private, high-speed freeway is somewhere between “Virtually nil,” and “Surely you must be joking?” It would be easier and more functional (though just as cost prohibitive) to build a high speed rail system between those cities. (The Amtrak schedule and route from LA to SF sucks.)
This is one of those “Wouldn’t it be great if…” ideas. Unfortunately, reality says it isn’t all that great after all.
Also, if you were to ever pull it off, you would probably never get enough tolls to pay it off. You could even get enough people to pay $100 a pop to make it crowded, defeating the purpose, and still not pay it off. If you could come in at a billion, you’d need 10 million tolls to break even on the initial cost. Maintenance would be needed, also the security mentioned, ect.
As for liability, looks like you could have a clause in the toll that said something like, “By paying this toll, I hold Private Freeway not responsible for my death blah blah blah”. Not sure if that would hold up, IANAL.
Such a clause might help in winning the lawsuit, but it’s not going to prevent somebody from filing one. This hypothetical Private Freeway corporation would need a bigger legal staff than Wal-Mart just to fight off the lawsuits.
While it’s true that turnpikes were the original toll roads, they’re nothing like what the OP is describing - they’re more analgous to air travel, making possible journies & schedules which simply would be an impossibility by any other means.
And the M6 toll road doesn’t run “between Manchester and Birmingham” - it’s just a bypass around the north-east of Birmingham. See here.
Well Passing by the higher speed limits, I think such roads are on their way. We will be able to pay to drive in ‘less congested’ lanes, such as HOV lanes (with 1 person). Also some roads may be privatized.
This won’t make a 65 mph trip into a 100 mph trip, but will make a 20 mpg commute a 50 mph one.
Yes but German laws and liability laws are not the same as the ones in the US.
To be cleared to go upto 160 in the event listed in post #6 I had to:
[ul]
[li]Have tires listed on the approved list[/li][li]Full roll cage[/li][li]5 Point seat belts[/li][li]Fuel cell (we got a waiver on this one due to the construction of the car’s stock tank)[/li][li]Wear a nomex fire suit[/li][li]Helmet[/li][li]Attend driving school[/li][/ul]
All of that was in addition to what we had to do to get the car to travel 163 MPH.
One other small detail concerning the trip from SF to SD, I doubt that the US government would be willing to sell an easment through the several thousand acres that it holds as a Marine Base and wildlife refuge, stretching from the ocean to China Lake, and from Orange county to Oceanside. Its called Camp Pendleton.