California Propositions 2004

Not unexpectedly, California has a plethora of statewide issues this November. I’m still undecided on a lot of these and am interested in what others here think of them. Opinions of other Californians are preferred, but everyone is welcome to comment. Let’s start with one thread, but if any issues are particularly contentious, we can start separate threads.

Here are the issues (from the CA SoS). I’m also including the stances of the CA Democratic and Republican parties, and Governor Arnold.[ul][li]1A Protection of Local Government Revenues. Dem Yes, GOP Yes, Arnold Yes.[]59 Public Records, Open Meetings. Legislative Constitutional Amendment. Dem Yes, GOP Yes, Arnold Yes.[]60 Election Rights of Political Parties. Legislative Constitutional Amendment. Dem Yes, GOP Yes, Arnold No.[]60A Surplus Property. Legislative Constitutional Amendment. Dem Yes, GOP Yes, Arnold unknown.[]61 Children’s Hospital Projects. Grant Program. Bond Act. Initiative Statute. Dem Yes, GOP No, Arnold unknown.[]62 Elections. Primaries. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. Dem No, GOP No, Arnold Yes.[]63 Mental Health Services Expansion, Funding. Tax on Personal Incomes Above $1 Million. Initiative Statute. Dem Yes, GOP No, Arnold No.[]64 Limits on Private Enforcement of Unfair Business Competition Laws. Initiative Statute. Dem No, GOP Yes, Arnold Yes.[]65 Local Government Funds, Revenues. State Mandates. Initiative Constitutional Amendment. Dem Neutral, GOP No, Arnold unknown.[]66 Limitations on “Three Strikes” Law. Sex Crimes. Punishment. Initiative Statute. Dem Yes, GOP No, Arnold No.[]67 Emergency Medical Services. Funding. Telephone Surcharge. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. Dem No, GOP No, Arnold No.[]68 Non-Tribal Commercial Gambling Expansion. Tribal Gaming Compact Amendments. Revenues, Tax Exemptions. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. Dem No, GOP No, Arnold No.[]69 DNA Samples. Collection. Database. Funding. Initiative Statute. Dem No, GOP Yes, Arnold Yes.[]70 Tribal Gaming Compacts. Exclusive Gaming Rights. Contributions to State. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. Dem No, GOP No, Arnold No.[]71 Stem Cell Research. Funding. Bonds. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. Dem Yes, GOP No, Arnold Yes.72 Health Care Coverage Requirements. Referendum. Dem Yes, GOP No, Arnold No.[/ul]Hopefully I got all those positions right.[/li]
Let’s hear your opinions and the reasonings behind the them.

I just got started looking at those, and the first one I looked at, 60, already seems cryptic. It sounds like 62 only allows 2 candidates to make it to the ballot from the primaries in any election. Is that right? But is 60 supposed to preempt 62? 62 sounds stupid, but I don’t get what 60 is supposed to do. How is it different than the status quo?

Damn, now I’m going to have to sit down and read all of them. Back later. Maybe waaay later.

If anybody can explain 68 and 70 in non-partisan, plain english, I would be very, very much obliged. I figure they must be important since they inspire so much vitriol from the supporters/detractors.

Good luck…

68 seems to say that the CA government will be able to negotiate agreements with Indian tribes with casinos who already have compacts with the state requiring the tribes to, among other things, pay the state 25% of the slot revenues, and comply with state laws regarding campaign financing, environmental law, gaming regulation, etc. (because, right now, only the Indians can operate slot machines, and the tribes are exempt from state law) If this proposition passes, the tribes will have 90 days to enter into new compacts with the state including the above provisions. If they don’t, the state will be allowed to authorize the use of slots in 5 existing racetracks, and 11 existing card rooms.

70 changes the details of the gambling compacts. It says that the governor will have to amend an existing compact or enter into a new compact with a tribe at the tribe’s request, and any new or amended compact must include the following:

  a.  The tribe to pay a percentage of it's net profits from gambling equal to the corporate tax rate (currently 8.84%), so long as the tribes have the exclusive right to certain forms of gambling in the state (like slots, see above).

  b.  The tribes will be authorized to offer games including roulette, craps, and other forms of casino gambling.  Plus, the current limits on the number of slot machines each tribe will be allowed to operate will be lifted.

   c.  These compacts will be good for 99 years

   d.  Before building a new or expanding an existing casino, the tribe will have to conduct an environmental impact study.

When I got the official state voter guide in the mail (about a 1/4" thick book of thin newsprint), my thought was “no one told me voting required homework…”

I believe Props 60 and 62 are mutually exclusive. No more than one can pass. If the both get a majority of yays, the one with the most is the one that passes. I think I’m in favor of 62, just because it weakens the influence of the party extremists and encourages more centrist/compromising candidates.

I’m in favor of Prop 71. I think investment in stem-cell research is a good one, although it’s a stretch for the state to be so directly involved in it. I like the thumbing of the noses to the Feds on this.

I’m against Props 63 (extra income tax an million-plus incomes for mental health services) and 67 (surcharge on cell-phone calls for emergency services). These both institute special taxes on things unrelated to what the service is. The government should pay for this stuff out of the general fund. Special taxes are bad.

Having read through all the propositions, their analyses, rebuttals, etc., here’s where I am at the moment (subject to change once my husband and I sit down and hash these things out together, which we always do, so that we can basically vote as a “family”, since he’s a non-citizen and can’t cast his own votes, but haven’t done yet with these).:

1A - Yes. At first this struck me as a bit “elitist,” in that the more affluent communities will have the better funded police & fire departments, parks, libraries, etc. A part of me believes that just because, say, Compton, isn’t as well-to-do as Redondo Beach, doesn’t mean that residents should have to suffer with less adequate police and fire protection because fewer businesses exist to support such services with their tax dollars and residents are too poor to provide enough tax revenue, either. I like the idea that there’s a “central pot,” so to speak, from which funds are distributed based on every community’s needs. However, it seems that’s not really the way it’s been working anyway, and everyone seems to be FOR this, so there must be some merit to keeping the money in the community it’s generated by, so I defer to the “experts” and vote Yes.

59 - Yes. I’m all for access to information – this was a no-brainer.

60 - Yes. The way I read this one, if the Green Party, for instance, is on the Primary ballot, then the Green Party candidate who receives the most Primary votes MUST be allowed to appear on the actual election ballot. Why that’s not the case now, I have no clue, but it only seems fair to me. The arguments against it seem to be based on nothing more than slippery slope possibilities that haven’t even happened. Just because it doesn’t “prevent… schemes from being imposed in the future,” doesn’t mean it isn’t good on its own merits for exactly and only what it proposes to do. And I like what it proposes, so therefore my ‘yes’ vote.

60A - Yes. The “anti” is yet another one of those “what it does is good to a point, but it doesn’t do enough, so vote no on the whole thing,” nonsense. So it doesn’t “force” the state to sell off excess assets – so what? At least if they DO sell them, the proceeds have to be used to pay down the interest on outstanding bonds. Win/win, as far as I can tell. So those opposed, who want to see the state be forced to sell the assets that would generate this revenue, by all means, put a Proposition on the next ballot to call for it. If you do, I’ll vote ‘yes’ on that one, too.

61 - Yes. As a bleeding heart liberal, this should’ve been a no-brainer, too, but I did waffle back and forth on it a few times before deciding on my ‘yes’ vote. I don’t much care for the idea of the state taking on so much more debt at this point. But without a reasonable healthcare alternative for so many families without coverage, we really don’t have much choice. Prop 72 might be an alternative, but I’m undecided on that one (see below), so I’m voting to take care of our immediate needs with this one.

62 - No. Good lord this one sounds like a major clusterfuck, if you ask me. Bad, bad idea, and it seems both the Dems and GOP agree.

63 - No. While it would seem as though I’d fall the same way on this one as I did on 61, I chose my ‘no’ vote based on fiscal reasons. It’s not that I don’t see a need for the type of services this proposition calls for, it’s that I don’t like how they’re going about getting the funding for it. As opposed to favoring Kerry’s rollback of Federal taxes on the top 1 or 2% of the wealthiest citizens, this one actually increases taxes and allocates them directly for this project, then freezes the funding level even if revenues from that source fall at any point in the future. It’s a good idea with poor implementation, so I’m going to say ‘no’.

64 - No. While I’m all for finding a way to prevent shady lawyers from being able to perpetrate unethical shakedowns, I’m against trying to do so in a way that also curbs honest citizens and interested groups from exercising their rights under the existing laws. I say find a different way to achieve the goals of this one.

65 - No. The original proponents say this one is moot if we vote ‘yes’ on 1A, which I’m planning on doing, so that makes my vote here ‘no’.

66 - No. I’m breaking with the Dems on this one (sorry, guys). I generally tend to vote more in line with Republicans on issues of crime and criminal justice anyway (usually vote for the Republican prosecutors, etc.), and this one is no exception. I agree that our “Three Strikes” laws could use some tweaking, but I think this proposal tweaks too hard and could potentially cause too many problems and cost too much money. Try again next time.

67 - No. No, no, no. Leave my damn phone bill alone, thankyouverymuch. 'Nuff said.

68 & 70 - No. Lots of anger from both sides surrounding these 2 proposals, and frankly, I don’t like either of them. On the one hand, it doesn’t seem fair that Indian gaming isn’t taxed like other California businesses. On the other hand, Indian nations are sovereign, and therefore not subject to our tax system. It’d be nice if we could all find a way to work together for the common good of all parties, and neither of these props sound like they’ll do anything towards that end. They’re filled with “tit for tat” language that I find childish and offensive. Apparently Governor Arnold is in the process of, or has already, cut some kind of deal with the Indian tribes that would afford the state some revenue from Indian gaming. Seeing as how I don’t like the language or outcome of either of these propositions, I’m all for trusting the Gov to do the negotiating on behalf of the state and strike a bargain on his own.

69 - Undecided, leaning No. I’m all for collecting DNA on convicted criminals for a national database. But I’m extremely uncomfortable with allowing collection of DNA samples on people who are merely arrested and not even charged with anything yet, let alone convicted. The more I think about it, the more I lean heavier towards ‘no’.

71 - Yes. No-brainer.

72 - Undecided, leaning Yes. On the one hand, I’m against forcing business owners to have to provide healthcare coverage for employees, let alone having the government dictate at what percentage they have to provide coverage. It seems to me as though the government is taking on the role of Union Leader on this subject, and “negotiating” on my behalf, when it might not be to my benefit to have my employer forced into mandatory healthcare coverage. On the other hand, the state does have a right (and an obligation) to protect its assets on behalf of all its citizens, and it’s bleeding money and resources (no pun intended) providing healthcare to employed, but uninsured individuals and families. While businesses may leave the state, and small businesses may be forced to lay off employees in the short term if this thing passes, the long-term ramifications of not passing it could potentially be a lot more devastating, with more and more businesses deciding to drop healthcare benefits entirely and more and more people becoming uninsured. I don’t like the coercive nature of it, but I don’t like the potential consequences of not passing it, either. Feh.

I never vote for Propositions, it’s a ridiculous way to make legislation.

I tend to agree 90% of the time. Once in awhile, though, there’s a good one. I already sent in my ballot and the one I was most interested in voting against was 72. It’s absurd to think that your employer owes you health insurance. Additionally, employer provide health insurance is one of the main reasons health care costs are so high. When you don’t pay for something yourself, you have little if any incentive to worry about cost.

Thank you very much. I’m still not entirely certain how I feel about this, or how I should feel about it, but at least I understand what the hell is going on now.

Can I just say something about the way 68 is being presented? What is this “fair share” nonsense? The Indians were forced off their land and relocated in reservations, which were basically land that nobody else wanted. Part of the deal was that the reservations are considered to be sovereign nations. It wasn’t a very good deal, considering they got herded up and stuck in the crappiest places in the country, but that’s what they got. So that’s the deal - they are sovereign, and sovereign nations do not pay taxes to other sovereign nations. So if you want to talk about “fair” - what would be “fair” would be for them to pay the State of California absolutely nothing.

Now, I know a lot of people advocate having the Indians pay a higher percentage of their gambling income, and they’re certainly entitled to their opinion. But what cheeses me off is this nonsense implication that they are somehow supposed to pay taxes, and that it’s somehow “unfair” if they don’t.

Incidentally, 68 sounds like a really horrible idea. The way I’m reading it, it sounds like an exortion scheme: “You pay us 25% or we’ll let every Tom, Dick, & Harry open a casino in California.” But if any of the Indian tribes refuse to go along with the deal, then they have to make good on the threat. Do we really want to be another Nevada? Even the Governator is against it, and he was originally the guy who was all gung ho about taxing the Indians, so you know it’s gotta be a bad idea.

Blowero, I’m with you on the “fair share” initiatives (or “feeah sheeah” in Arnoldspeak). We should leave the Indians alone. US federal and state governrments have deprived them of almost everything, and it’s about time they had something beyond the most undesirable land the governrment could find to put hem on. If they make billions, good for them. I don’t want any other casinos in California. NO on 68 and 70.

YES on 63. It may undo some of the damage done by Reagan’s mental health cuts. It’s about time.

YES on 64. The shysters are rich enough.

NO on 66. Three strikes still strikes me as a good idea. If someone goes up for life after three non-violent crimes, so what? Three concivtions in any category means you’re a habitiual criminal. Why should you be free to prey continually on law-abiding people? I’m a Democrat, but I disagree with my party on this one.

NO on 69. DNA collection from convicted felons is one thing, but I don’t want to see a database on people who have been accused, but not convicted.

YES on 71. Stem cell research is necessary. Period.

YES on 72. Health care for employeees should be part of the cost of doing business.

The interesting thing about 70 though, is that if I’m not mistaken, it’s PRO-Indian. If I’m remembering right, and please correct me if I’m wrong, they are running ads for 70 which are also talking about “fair share”, which is actually a bit of a deception, because 70s “fair share” is the corporate tax rate, which would actually probably result in less money to the state than the status quo. It also removes most of the current limitations on the number and kind of games they can have, and remains in effect for 99 years. I think they’re trying to make it sound like a proposal to tax the casinos more, when it’s actually designed to tax them less.

Can you explain how you arrived at this dictum?

Why not also require a turkey every thanksgiving, a nice house in the hills, and a fancy car?

Oh jeez - this thread was getting interesting. I beg you not to turn it into a “free-market” pile-on.

About Props 68 and 70, I’m generally against casinos. So I’ll vote against 68. For 70, I’m not so sure. It’s definitely a sweet deal for the Indian casinos (good tax rate, 99 year monopoly), but will it increase or decrease the number of casinos in California?

Prop 62: Shayna can you expand on why you dont like it? It sounds reasonable to me, but I admit it’s effects are difficult to foresee.

I don’t understand your point. Someone made an unsubstantiated assertion. If I call that person on it, why is that a “pile on”? Since prop 72 is directly aimed at businesses, it would seem that a free market analysis is very germane to the discussion. Unless, of course, we’re supposed to assume that such an analysis is inherently worng.

Sorry John, I wasn’t trying to say that you were piling on, just that it will inevitably turn into a pile-on. Every time this subject is broached, the usual gang of free-market libertarian thugs show up, begin browbeating everyone with their religion, and get hostile with anyone who dares to disagree.

BTW, I read DezertGeezer’s comment as being his opinion. It’s no more an “unsubstantiated assertion” than, “I like ice cream”.

Resistance is futile. :slight_smile:

Free market thugs? Come on. Freedom and thugery are antithetical. It’s the socialists who are the thugs-- agree with us or go to jail.