Calling all sleuths

Factual Questions
21

[QUOTE=samclem]
I’m glad Xash made his presence know, and in his usually intelligent way. I, as a mod, possibly would have closed it. Not saying I automatically would have, just might have after some thinking.

Reading the OP, my first thought is “Hmmm? He wants to put it on his wife’s car because he suspects she’s having an affair. And after he catches her, he’ll confront her and a shooting will take place. And the Board will have had a hand in it.”

See how my mind works? :slight_smile:

samclem
[/QUOTE]

But notice as well, no one answered the OP (yet) in a “direct” way.
Perhaps I was “too” cynical.

22

[QUOTE=samclem]
Reading the OP, my first thought is “Hmmm? He wants to put it on his wife’s car because he suspects she’s having an affair. And after he catches her, he’ll confront her and a shooting will take place. And the Board will have had a hand in it.”

See how my mind works? :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

OR - after he catches her, he’ll have a camera crew from Cheaters bust into their house and confront her on national television, where he will thank the Straight Dope profusely for its help, generating great publicity and mug/t-shirt sales.

Power of positive thinking samclem, power of positive thinking.

23

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
OR - after he catches her, he’ll have a camera crew from Cheaters bust into their house and confront her on national television, where he will thank the Straight Dope profusely for its help, generating great publicity and mug/t-shirt sales.

Power of positive thinking samclem, power of positive thinking.
[/QUOTE]

Or…

One camera crew could capture the EMT crew pickup the hobo that died outside the LA apartment in a sprinkler system of a SMBD poster that thought it was more important to troll a message board than to report a possible death…

24

Not sure what you are doing and I hope it is not harmful to anyone, but here is a device that might work.

Trackstar III

25

[QUOTE=scottkris]
Or…

One camera crew could capture the EMT crew pickup the hobo that died outside the LA apartment in a sprinkler system of a SMBD poster that thought it was more important to troll a message board than to report a possible death…
[/QUOTE]

Come on now, that wasn’t even funny (and you spelled “SDMB” wrong).

P.S. this is GQ. I’ll leave it at that.

26

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
Come on now, that wasn’t even funny (and you spelled “SDMB” wrong)..
[/QUOTE]

You are right (about the spelling).

You are wrong about the rest.

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]

P.S. this is GQ. I’ll leave it at that.
[/QUOTE]

As will I…

27

Since this thread has not been locked yet, A $50 boost mobile phone or Nextel phone (both are GPS enabled and allow the GPS data to be used by 3rd party) with mologogo installed is about as cheap as a tracking device as you can get. If you can place it so that you can get a good GPS signal it’s fairly accurate. If not, you can still see their approximate location based on cell tower signals.

Here’s my track, for example.

28

Or, a friends wife has started leaving the house at 11:00 pm on a nightly basis.
Won’t tell him where she is going. He suspects an affair but she says no.
He is concerned. He doesn’t have the money to hire a detective or a lawyer for something that might be just “I need some space.”

I find it truly amazing that this post has gone the way it has because of the opinions of an obviously paranoid newby that only has 60 posts.

Instead it should have said “Hey check out tracking devices on ebay.”

29

BTW I’m still looking for a low cost way of doing it.

30

I read a very disturbing article in Popular Science about high-tech stalking, including cases of people who hid phones with GPS in victims cars and followed them wherever they went.
As long as it’s used in a legal way, The Sharper Image sells something you could look at, but it’s kinda expensive.

31

If there is a cheaper way that the method I described, I’d sure love to hear it!

32

[QUOTE=justwannano]
I find it truly amazing that this post has gone the way it has because of the opinions of an obviously paranoid newby that only has 60 posts.

Instead it should have said “Hey check out tracking devices on ebay.”
[/QUOTE]

I think it’s a perfectly reasonable concern to raise. Don’t knock the guy’s point just because he has a low post count.

The question of whether it is legal to use GPS or other technology to track another individual without their knowledge is a matter that is unsettled in the law. The use of these devices by law enforcement is well settled by Federal law (and by additional state law in some jurisdictions.) In most cases, warrants are required to address the 4th amendment issues, both with reagrds to installing the device and to the tracking itself. This article [PDF alert] from the Department of Homeland Security outlines the relevant legal issues at both the federal and state issues.

There is also clear legal precedent in cases where the GPS systems are installed in cars by the owner of the vehicle, for example rental car companies. Cases in Connecticut, New York, and California (to name a few) have helped establish limits for using tracking devices in vehicles without the knowledge of the driver. (see this findlaw article for cites of specific cases).

Additionally, I would note that the OP is from Iowa, which has some pretty strong anti-stalking laws that could apply (§708.11). If the wife wants to be left alone and the husband follows her movements (electronically rather than physically in this case), that might be construed as a violation of the law.

(I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.)

33

A few comments:

[QUOTE=anson2995]
I think it’s a perfectly reasonable concern to raise. Don’t knock the guy’s point just because he has a low post count.
[/quote]

I agree.

[QUOTE=anson2995]
The question of whether it is legal to use GPS or other technology to track another individual without their knowledge is a matter that is unsettled in the law. [text relating to use by law enforcement omitted]

There is also clear legal precedent in cases where the GPS systems are installed in cars by the owner of the vehicle, for example rental car companies. Cases in Connecticut, New York, and California (to name a few) have helped establish limits for using tracking devices in vehicles without the knowledge of the driver. (see this findlaw article for cites of specific cases).
[/quote]

I question what you seem to be saying (or at least implying) here. (I’ve omitted the law-enforcement stuff, because that’s not involved in the situation presented by the OP – my comments are focused on the installation of GPS or similar electronic tracking devices by the owner of a vehicle.)

I’m unaware of any law that would prevent an owner or co-owner of a vehicle from installing such equipment. And, of course, in the absence of such a law, the legality of a vehicle owner’s installation of equipment on his car seems fairly obvious. Legally, it’d be no different than a decision to install a loud novelty horn, or neon undercarriage lighting. (In other words, in poor taste, or questionable in an ethical sense, but not illegal.) So I’m not seeing how you can say that the law is unsettled.

Your cite deals only with car rental companies using data from GPS devices for specific purposes – charging excessive penalty fees for speeding, for example. Nothing cited prohibits the company from installing the device, or using it to track movements of the vehicle. The case simply said that the fees could not be charged, under general contract/commercial law principles. And that has nothing to do with the OP’s situation.

Where we need to look, I think, is not commercial law, but privacy or criminal law. So I agree that looking to Iowa’s anti-stalking statute is worthwhile. It’s at least possible that a state’s stalking law would apply.

Here’s the statutory section that you cite: http://nxtsearch.legis.state.ia.us/NXT/gateway.dll/moved%20code/2005%20Iowa%20Code/1?f=templates&fn=default.htm

However, I’m not seeing that installation of a GPS device by one spouse in the family car would be a violation. Not by itself, anyway. Can you show me what language led you to suggest that this might be a violation of the law?

(Note: I am aware of at least one case where, as part of a much larger pattern of stalking, an ex-boyfriend secretly installed a tracking device on his target’s car, which he didn’t own. I agree that this may very well be illegal. But that’s not the situation here, at least as far as we know.)

34

[QUOTE=justwannano]
I find it truly amazing that this post has gone the way it has because of the opinions of an obviously paranoid newby that only has 60 posts.

[/QUOTE]
Nah. It’s “gone the way it has” because many, many posters read the OP the same way I did. Right from the get-go I had more than a few “report this post” emails.

I’d suggest that if your last post detailing the reason was true, you might not want to be the one who places the device on “her” car. Liability and all, doncha know.

35

[QUOTE=Random]
I’m unaware of any law that would prevent an owner or co-owner of a vehicle from installing such equipment. And, of course, in the absence of such a law, the legality of a vehicle owner’s installation of equipment on his car seems fairly obvious. Legally, it’d be no different than a decision to install a loud novelty horn, or neon undercarriage lighting. (In other words, in poor taste, or questionable in an ethical sense, but not illegal.) So I’m not seeing how you can say that the law is unsettled.
[/QUOTE]

What I meant was that it is unsettled with respect to installing a tracking device on a vehicle you do not own. The OP’s posts have suggested that was his intention.

[QUOTE=Random]
However, I’m not seeing that installation of a GPS device by one spouse in the family car would be a violation. Not by itself, anyway.
[/QUOTE]

By itself probably not, but I guess I was making assumptions about the context of the behavior which may or may not be present. Even if its the husband putting the device on the family car, it could be considered either “harrassment” or “stalking” if it’s done to harass or intimidate the wife. It’s not a big leap to see that this is where the situation is headed.

36

So here I am thinking there must be a definition of stalking. I’m also thinking that just because you want to see where your car is parked wouldn’t fit any definition I can think of.
I still think its paranoia.

37

[QUOTE=Dorjän]
Since this thread has not been locked yet, A $50 boost mobile phone or Nextel phone (both are GPS enabled and allow the GPS data to be used by 3rd party) with mologogo installed is about as cheap as a tracking device as you can get. If you can place it so that you can get a good GPS signal it’s fairly accurate. If not, you can still see their approximate location based on cell tower signals.

Here’s my track, for example.
[/QUOTE]
Am I the only one who finds this creepy? I guess I knew that such stuff was theoretically possible. But to see it so available and so cheap is a surprise to me. And the fact that it is so simple must mean that anyone who really wants to – government, terrorist, or nosy neighbor – can probably track pretty much anyone anytime.

It’s even creepier that people want to give other people, even strangers, this information. (Nothing personal Dorjän.) No one seems to value the notion of privacy anymore. I find that scary.

38

[QUOTE=commasense]
Am I the only one who finds this creepy? I guess I knew that such stuff was theoretically possible. But to see it so available and so cheap is a surprise to me. And the fact that it is so simple must mean that anyone who really wants to – government, terrorist, or nosy neighbor – can probably track pretty much anyone anytime.

It’s even creepier that people want to give other people, even strangers, this information. (Nothing personal Dorjän.) No one seems to value the notion of privacy anymore. I find that scary.
[/QUOTE]

No, no you’re not. It’s incredibly creepy.

39

[QUOTE=justwannano]
So here I am thinking there must be a definition of stalking.
[/QUOTE]

Here’s Iowa’s definition of stalking. The relevant portion of the definition: "repeatedly maintaining a visual or physical proximity to a person without legitimate purpose "

[QUOTE=justwannano]
I’m also thinking that just because you want to see where your car is parked wouldn’t fit any definition I can think of.
[/QUOTE]

But it’s not about the car, it’s about the wife, and what makes it stalking is what he intends to do with that information once he has it. If he intends to use it to confront her, it might cross the line.

[QUOTE=justwannano]
I still think its paranoia.
[/QUOTE]

How ironic. Good luck with your adventure.

40

I remember when I was a kid checking out the neighbors copy of (drum roll)“TRUE DETECTIVE” (end drum roll) magazine. This stuff was available back then. Dunno about the quality of it but anyone with the money could buy it.