I’ve previously read The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Now I’m reading The Silmarillion. What an awesome book.
I’ve just finished the main part of the book (the story of the Silmarils), and I have a question about the marriage of Beren and Luthien, and the status of their son. Beren, a mortal man, and Luthien, an elf, are in love. When Beren dies, Luthien loses her will to live and (as elves are capable of doing) dies from grief. In the Halls of Mandos, she convinces the powers that be (namely Eru and Manwe) to let she and Beren return to Middle Earth, but with herself as a mortal. So far, so good.
But they have a son named Dior, whom succeeds Luthien’s father Thingol as king of Doriath. Does Dior have the fate of an Elf, or a Man? He’s born after Luthien is turned into a mortal, so both his parents were mortals, but he becomes an elven king. I guess what I’m asking is that would Dior have to worry about growing old? Given what happens, this question is purely academic, but still…
Also: What happened to Maglor after he threw his Silmaril into the ocean? The text doesn’t seem clear to me about this. Does he die from grief, or does he live on and turn up again in a later age?
At some point (I don’t have it with me, so I apologize for no cites), the half-elves, who were the descendents of Beren/Luthien and the other mortal man/elven woman pair (I forget their names), were given a choice of which fate to take, and their children inherited the same fate: Elrond (and his children) lived as an Elf, but his brother Elros lived as a man and was the ancestor of the Numenoreans.
Enjoy that book, it’s great. I had a lot of people tell me not to read it because it’s boring, but I loved it.
Dior was already dead by this point, so it’s kinda a moot question, but still: If Dior had not been murdered by the Psychopathic Sons of Feanor, would he have grown old?
The other pair was Tuor and Idril, their son was Earindel (sp) who married Elwing- their kids were Elrond and Elros. Earindel chose to be an elf because Elwing did, Elwing chose because she admired Luthien.
Maglor roamed the world in grief after he threw Silmaril into the ocean.
Similar question to the Dior one: was Luthien a Maiar or an elf?
I’ve always assumed that Dior’s default setting was elven, but I have zero evidence as to why I think that way. Bartman, you out there?
As for Luthien being a Maia, Tolkien did state that the Ainur (which encompasses Valar and Maiar) were created outside of Ea, and directly by Iluvatar. I’d think that would disqualify Luthien, IMHO.
Good question. I didn’t know before I looked this up. I would have said Mortal, because Tolkien generally considers Mortality a great gift that the Valar were not normally able to grant or take away. Anyway here is what I could find.
This is from an early draft of “Quenta Silmarillion” from The Lost Road (HoMe V) where Manwe gives judgement concerning the Half-elven:
In a note to “The Line of Elros” in Unfinished Tales Christoper Tolkien writes:
Of the above passage, Christopher says in the end-notes:
In other references Luthien, Earendil, Elwing, Elros, Elrond, Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen are all explicitly said to be given the choice, nowhere that I can find was Dior. So the choice springs from Earendil not Beren and Luthien. Dior was Mortal because both his parents were mortal when he was concieved and born. Now the first question that strikes me is why did Elrond’s children inherit the choice while Elros’ did not? The second question that strikes me is why did the Elves accept Dior as Thingol’s heir if he was mortal? The third is did Luthien’s power, arguably a heritage from her mother, disapear when she became mortal? Well I guess I have me a little research to keep me busy this week.