Can an electrical engineer do anything that an electrician can do?

Factual Questions
21

In grad school we students had access to a small machine shop that we could use without supervision and without any serious training (in retrospect, it’s bizarre that this was allowed). For major hardware fabrication we’d come up with drawings and send the job out, but for smaller stuff, we could just walk into this shop and do it ourselves. Having learned there how to use an ancient mill and lathe with no CNC capability (and at first, no digital readouts), it soon factored into my thinking about how to design hardware for fabrication: you start to think about how the piece will be held while machining, how rigid various sections need to be to tolerate machining forces, how tight a tolerance you really need on this surface or that (since you know how difficult it is to obtain a given tolerance), and so on.

It makes sense that tradesmen who are the true experts at their job should primarily be the hands-on folks, but a design engineer (whether electrical, mechanical, or otherwise) who has never experienced the fabrication or service side of things is more likely to produce shitty designs that are a pain to make or use.

22

Yes, when I designed products, I went through the shitty design phase. In school though you have so many courses on theory and industry is so broad that it’s unrealistic to expect engineering graduates to be familiar with any particular subset of industry.

23

I got a BS in electrical engineering back in the 80’s. I had one class on power transmission, and nothing at all on household wiring. We spent most of our time on electronic design.

24

It should be understood that electrical engineers don’t just design circuits for products or work on building installations of electrical systems. The field of electrical engineering covers a wide variety of different applications from VLSI circuit logic design to signal analysis and processing. Many electrical engineers will never wire a circuit outside of a school-mandated lab, nor do they require that skill in order to perform well at their vocation. It is true that engineers who work on car and other vehicle electronics generally work with 12V systems, and that engineers that work on consumer electronics typically work in the 5V range, but there are plenty of applications in electricity that are in the hundreds to tens of thousands of kV DC range, and of course power transmission systems are tens of kVDC and 240 VAC to 690 VAC three phase power. It just depends on what area industry an engineer is working in.

I would agree that engineers who design products should have at least a basic understanding of how the product is actually fabricated; nothing is more frustrating than having to explain to another engineer how the precious design he is so proud of cannot be manufactured in a cost-effective manner if at all. However, the oft-levied complaints that the difficulty in maintenance complex product such as an automobile is the fault of “the engineer who designed it” begs an understanding of the overall process of developing a complex system in which there are many engineers, each of whom have responsibility for only one small subsystem on the vehicle, and none of whom dictate how it is ultimately assembled. When you find that your socket wrench can’t get to the rear-most spark plug without jacking the engine up off of its mount, that isn’t the fault of the engineer who designed the engine (who probably has no idea how it will be mounted in the vehicle), or the one that designed the transmission (ditto), or perhaps not even the engineering team responsible for packaging the system (who are largely responsible for making sure that things go together on the assembly line). It is rather the fault of the design management team for not having or following a process to evaluate the maintainability of the vehicle, and providing fixes for such oversights. In some cases, this is even intentional; a complex product may be designed for ease of assembly rather than ease of maintenance under the assumption that maintenance is infrequent and the cost and difficulty of redesign isn’t perceived as a value. Some companies are very good overall in design for maintainability (say, Honda or Toyota) and some have reputations for not giving a flying fuck about how difficult it is to work on a car or commonizing components (General Motors, BMW).

Most electrical engineers are not electricians, just as most mechanical engineers are not car mechanics. For that matter, most architects are not carpenters, most food scientists are not chefs, and most astronomers are not lensmakers. The key distinction is the difference between being a tool maker and a tool user; when it comes to complex products and systems that require expertise and access to tools beyond that available to the enthusiast, there are few people who can be both.

Stranger

25

I’m an EE in the power industry, and I could probably do anything an electrician can do, but not easily or quickly. It would take a fair amount of additional research and practice, but it isn’t like I’m ignorant of electrical power systems entirely. I design automation, data collection and HMIs for large power systems, so I’m not intimately familiar with the electrical code or wiring standards. But I could figure it out. I’m familiar in general with electrical safety, protection and how power is distributed through substations, factories and homes. I read schematics and wiring diagrams and know the general best practices of designing power systems. In that sense, I’m much more capable of electrician work than an EE who designs CD players or integrated circuits.

So, if Armageddon occurs and I’m one of the few left, and time, money and detailed adherence to the electrical code is no issue, I could certainly help us survivors get some electrical power up and running. I could wire houses and make the lights come on. But I wouldn’t expect to be able to step into the shoes of a currently licensed, professional electrician without taking up an apprenticeship first. It’s a completely different job with only a narrow theoretical overlap.

And that’s for an EE who works in the power industry. For an engineer who designs consumer electronics or radar systems, the situation is probably much more hopeless. They certainly have the aptitude to become an electrician, but they certainly can’t just step right into the role. I only had two power systems classes in college, and one of them was an elective. It’s a pretty small field in EE, and I learned most of what I know on the job.

26

I’ve been working as a EE for almost 30 years, and there are some EEs with decades of experience that I wouldn’t trust with a toaster.

They don’t teach electrician type stuff in EE school. I personally have taken the effort to learn as much of that kind of stuff as possible over the years. Most EEs don’t do that.

I’ve also spent the last couple of decades designing equipment for industrial control, and before that I worked in a power plant for a while, so I’m familiar with everything from low voltage circuit board design to high voltage power systems. Most EEs (at least the ones outside of the power industry or industrial control) aren’t all that familiar with AC power systems.

27

40 + years experience as a stationary engineer following a training and a short time as a marine engineer. Worked in many buildings and had to deal with a lot of what I call paper engineers. Engineers with theory as their strength.

On one job we were having VFDs installed on the supply fans to a department store.
1st problem the engineers called to replace the 25 Hp fan motors with 20 Hp motors. 2nd problem the construction electrician brought the drawings to the general contractor. He told the general if he wired in the drives according to the drawings they would not work. General contacted engineering firm requesting a proper set of drawings. The electrician said the new drawings would not work. This happened 3 times. The general set up a conference call. The electrician explained the what was wrong with the drawings. Because the EE could not understand what the man in the field was saying the EE told the electrician to draw up what he wanted and send it to the EE’s office and he would sign off on it. The electrician response was “and my consulting fee will be?” to which the EE told him he was not going to pay any consulting fee. That was when the general jumped and explained to the EE that the next set of drawing had better be right of he was going to be billed for the lost time on the job by the construction company. The next set of drawing came in the following week correct.

Fast forward 5 years, same store. Because of lack of enough air to cool the store they are replacing the 20 Hp motors with 30 Hp motors. This means larger VFDs and new wiring. The HVAC system had a fireman’s over ride, where the VFDs could be by passed and 60 cycle PG&E power connected directly to the motors. The new control cabinets had all the wiring in all that was need was to remove a jumper and connect the fireman’s by pass switch. But the EE did not use that and they installed large relays on all fans and VFDs. I took one look at the final set up and explained that when switching from VFDs to line voltage there was the probability of blowing things up. The contractor went with the EE word that it could not happen. So we tested the system. PUt it into auto let the fans come up on the VFDs. I went down to the fireman’s cabenit and threw the switch. When I got back to the machine room I knew what had happened when I looked at everyone standing out in the hall. I have never seen grown men like that before. their eyes were the biggest I had ever seen. both sets of VFDs were blown off the wall. The only useable parts were the cabinets, they had to be gutted. After the conference call to the EE, he would not approve the proper instillation, he wanted to put in time delay switches on the control. The general followed my recommendations.

There is a great deal of difference between theory and what will really work in the field.

28

I’m an EE but the only reason I have a clue as to low voltage wiring practices is that I supervised trained journeyman relay men. From them I learned some of their skill set of working with commercial and household wiring.

Other than that I could run rings around any electrician attempting to design and evaluate power plants and transmission lines.

29

That’s a team failure. In any suitably complex field no one individual knows all the details. Just around my own house I see mistakes made by the trades who constructed the house. Of course the builder friendly building instructor signs off on the work. Doesn’t mean it’s to code or right.

Anyways, why did the parts fail? Surge current too large?

30

On top of the electrician, and the EE, here is something in between.

The maintenance electrical engineer.

This is a wide field in itself, some only ever work on electronics, others work only on power distribution. Personally, I worked right the way through from very low power electronics, through instrumentation up to 11KV switchgear and distribution.

That would include stripping down large motors and directly associated machines to replace bearings or replacement - obviously I would not go as far as working on the main engineered machines themselves, though I did dabble a bit in pneumatics and hydraulics

This requires diagnostic skills far more than perhaps the others but all of them will need to have some sort of ability in this regard.

Maintenance and repair might well get involved in installation, but to a far lesser degree than the electrician, and may do some redesign in order to improve reliability, but usually nowhere near the level of the EE.

however, if you have a production line that costs you around 1800 cans/widgets per minute of downtime, its the maintenance electrician/engineer you need.

If you don’t want it to break down again, you call the same person.

Maintenance electricians are not always terribly popular, because good ones are expensive, and they appear to be doing very little - managers find it hard to understand that if the maintenance electrician is in the office drinking tea it means they have done their job, all the machines are working reliably.

Managers think they are only getting value for money when the machine is stopped and in bits , some managers are not very wise, and fail to understand why their maintenance electrician often makes more than they do.

As you work your way up the field of certification, there is often some commonality in going for Degrees which will have common components.

31

And then you have the electronics types who do something else completely. I can’t remember how many times during my career that somebody said:

“Oh, you’re an electrician? Can you take a look at my TV?”
“Sure, what’s on?” :smiley:

Also, electricians are usually specialized within the field. I did mostly secondary side wiring (from the transformer downstream). I wouldn’t have even attempted to do high voltage work without substantial training first. And forget anything to do with motor/generator repairs or telephone. But I could troubleshoot the hell out of a house wiring problem.

32

I have a Zinco service entrance in my kitchen, any advice?

33

This.

I’m an EE. But I don’t specialize in anything. Jack of all trades. In my current position at work I am a “failure analysis,” which means I try to find the root cause of electrically-related failures.

A few years ago I fixed up half our basement. Installed a 100 A sub panel and ran all wiring for receptacles and lighting. Was pretty simple.

34

I’m an industrial electrician. I’ve been doing it for almost 30 years and am considered quite good at it. (I’ve overheard others from where I work say so to my wife and children.) I do most all of what you describe without the engineer title. I have a very low opinion of engineers and their electrical ability. I take what they design and actually make it work as intended. I also have not met an EE that can sling a tool pouch on and climb a ladder 30 feet up the side of a bin on the roof and not spill a drop of coffee from his newly filled cup. I’ve been seen doing that and my excuse was next time don’t break things when I’m on break.

35

I have a friend who is an EE, and he has taken the time over the years to learn about wiring and such. I’d trust him to do anything in the house, and he has done a lot for me over the last forty years.

36

This.
I was explaining how we work with motor circuits running conveyor belts and controlled by Allen/Bradley controllers and what they did and he wasnt even familiar with a start/run capacitor arrangement. As you said he just worked on low voltage devices.

37

When I was in the USCG the ETs (Electronics Technicians) and the EMs (Electrician’s Mates) generally did NOT get along well with each other. I was an ET and my best pal was an EM. We figured it out during one night’s stoned conversation. The problem came from unauthorized use of the others Simpson P-260 and other tools. He didn’t find fault with the ET’s attitude that it’s the EMs job to get electricity it to the socket. The ETs took care of what plugs into the socket. We did keep a close eye out for EMs wanting to put an oscilloscope probe into a 120VAC outlet though.

We trained each other on being a tool holder and passer for each other. Our friendship was somewhat uncommon, but we did manage some cross training. And we both hated BMs (Bosun’s Mates), so we had that working for us. Though, of course, we were both essentially technicians, neither of us were engineers.

38

I’m an EE and my first summer job was working in an Electrical Supply store. I have no problem with minor electrical work, and in my teens, under the watchful eye of my electrician neighbor, replaced the fuse panel of my parents’ house with a breaker panel.

I was fortunate enough to attend a high school that had both electrical and electronics labs. So, I’m OK with with batteries/milliamps and three phase power systems. They even had us do a couple experiments with vacuum tubes, just so we’d understand the underlying principles.

After a number of years developing telecom equipment (IP switches/routers and the like) I now serve as a technical resource to a company selling anything called a ‘power supply’. So I’m covering everything from tiny board-level dc-dc converters up through three phase multi-KW systems. Kind of a fun way to finish out a career.

In general though, nowadays ‘Electrical Engineering’ has less and less to do with electricity.

39

I’m an RF engineer. It’s an entirely different world from wiring buildings. My dad was a plumber, a number of my uncles are tradesmen and carpenters and yes, electricians, so I’ve been exposed to all the stuff I don’t know about that world all my life.

I didn’t really pursue power systems and such in school, so I just touched on high-voltage subjects; transformers, three-phase AC systems and so on. If I were to study to be an electrician I imagine I’d get to brush up on all that and then some. And as others have mentioned, there’s familiarity with building codes and the hands-on of wiring buildings. Also, carpentry skills would help a lot.

40

I’m an electrical engineer, and I think I could give them a run for their money.

I’m pretty much a software engineer, with an emphasis in digital signal processing. My first job was at HP as an RF signal generator production engineer. I had no idea what was going on and was notorious for being an awful solderer. Fortunately for HP and myself I went back to grad school and ended up doing something closer to my skill set.

I’m remodeling my house and have a pretty good notion about the general technical aspects of wiring a house, but completely lack any practical knowledge. I can run conduit and electrical boxes, but will sure as shit hire an electrician to double check everything and pull wire through long runs. I’m not going to touch anything on the main power distribution panel because I’m scared of killing myself.