Right, but I was just wondering where/when it happened.
As I understand, someone hit him in the head w/ a fire extinguisher.
It doesn’t matter what the Trump supporters think, it matters what Trump thinks. And the last thing he saw was a throng of his admirers storming the Capitol. If he pardons them he will be a hero to more of the same. I don’t think he’s doing the math to figure out what the numbers of them are.
That hasn’t stopped him in the past. There are lots of uneasy, uncomfortable Republicans that keep their mouths shut in public.
Found this clip which early on shows a fire extinguisher thrown, tho not clearly established as the cause of the officer’s death.
The “rationalization” of the far right is that they believe they are patriots protecting Real America from evil mongrel hoards of socialists and anarchist who “stole” the election. I’m sure on some level, even most Nazi’s didn’t really believe they were following history’s greatest monster.
Do we have any sense of how many people actually entered the building as compared to the number rallying outside, and those rallying in the designated area where the speakers were?
The numbers I’ve read are one or two hundred inside the Capitol building, a couple of thousand on the steps around the building (an area which was closed), and 30,000 to 35,000 people attending the rally.
What is the process for someone to collect on/claim a blanket pardon like this, and what is the standard of proof? Does someone have to charge them with a specific crime involving that day after which they can officially “sign-up” for the blanket pardon?
What would stop someone accused of a crime in a different state at the same time from just claiming to be a rioter that day, getting the pardon, and using it as proof they couldn’t have committed their actual crime? “Look: the president himself pardoned me for what I was doing on the other side of the country on Jan 6”
Or, does issuing a blanket pardon mean more that nobody can be charged with those crimes so no legal action will be pursued and taking names doesn’t matter? At any rate, wouldn’t signing up for or claiming this pardon be seen as evidence these people did in fact commit these crimes?
Many of the rioters are already getting fired from their jobs and suffering other consequences before the legal processes have gotten going very far. Considering how many hundreds if not thousands of guilty people there were, I’d think they might want to keep their mouths shut and hope nobody points the finger at them and the can go on with their normal lives, rather than come out in the open and take the pardon then suffer all the personal consequences of basically confessing to being an insurrectionist.
I think the idea of the draft related pardon, for example, was to stop the pursuit of those doses who had illegally failed to comply with the draft. And that’s what happened, which is why it was never challenged.
In this case, it seems like that would be the same intent, to get existing charges dropped, and to prevent pursuit of more perpetrators. But I think it would be much more likely to be challenged.
For one thing, Carter (and this goes for Ford pardoning Nixon as well) issue the pardon at the beginning of his administration. So it was clearly not going to be the policy of that administration to challenge it. Here, if on his way out of office Trump blanket pardons the insurrectionists that he incited, the incoming Biden administration has strong reasons to continue to pursue those perpetrators and challenge the pardon power in court.
Before Trump, I would think the pardon power would be construed very broadly, but Trump has really shown, in my opinion, what the danger of that is. I think there’s a good chance that a blanket pardon (or a self-pardon) won’t hold up.
It seems to me, that equally important is that “the country at large” generally supported the draft dodger pardon AND Vietnam came to be seen as a “mistake” so draft dodging was viewed with sympathy.
Is there / would there be that same level of support / sympathy for the insurrectionists to be excused?
I’m not sure that “draft dodgers” were viewed that way in 1977, when Carter issued the pardon. I was only a kid then, but I remember it being controversial then and later on – definitely part of what a lot of people disliked Carter for. Looking around briefly, this History Channel page on it backs that up.
(My bracketed clarification added).
I suspect he won’t do it. The rioters are of no use to Trump now and his focus will be on salvaging what is left of his political and business interests after he leaves office.
This. The rioters serve no purpose to Trump, and we know he’s contemptuous of them - he complained about them being “low class” while the riot was happening. He liked the riot, he just thought the rioters were beneath his station.
I haven’t. Maybe they are keeping it under wraps during investigation but I’d like to know more.
I would have to hope that a blanket pardon would be challenged for any murderers in the group, but then again he’s pardoned the murderous contractors in Iraq. Maybe he could say I pardon everyone in the Capitol except murderers.
I lean toward thinking he won’t pardon if he thinks it could increase his own legal jeopardy. IMO he’d place self preservation above the adulation of his base.
I think in another of these threads - perhaps in the Pit, someone posted a news story (the Mail?) which had some photos and vid caps of the event. A specific man w/ a blue cap saying “CFD” was being sought. The fire extinguisher was on the ground, then this guy picked it up, walked towards a scuffle, and heaved it at the cops.
Then there is the other vid of the folk dragging a cop down some steps and jabbing at him w/ flagpoles. Not sure if he is the cop they say “might lose an eye.”
I saw the vid where the cop was getting hit with the flagpole, but I could barely tell what was happening in that one.
I’m thinking he won’t pardon the domestic terrorist.
If he does, and the Senate holds impeachment hearings a hundred days later, they may decide to impeach.
He won’t do anything that would increase his chances of being convicted. Pardoning the rioters would likely do that. For one thing, pardoning them would increase the likelihood of serious rioting on Jan. 17-20 since they would assume they would be pardoned too.
And why do you think Trump is against more rioting? ISTM that he’d love additional riots to stroke his inflated ego.
What many folk did on the 6th sure seems a perfect fit for the def of demestic terrorism in the Patriot Act.