Watch this unfold. Then six months down the road come back and re-read the thread. See who was right.
Fine by me. Feel free to revive the thread in 6 months and see where we are. If Syria has used chemical weapons in that time and the US hasn’t responded you win the internetz.
No whoosh here. Peggy is all carried away with the fantasy that some Obama supporters will paint this as his Cuban Missile Crisis. She fucking wishes.
I remember it. Living as a dependent on a SAC base. They told us they had a plane waiting, fly us off to safety in half an hour. You would be amazed at how many of us brats knew full well that if the shit hit the fan, the poor quality of Soviet ICBMs was just about our only hope. (Never found out if there even was such a plane. Frankly, I doubt it…)
There is much to criticise in JFK, his luke-warm commitment to civil rights and blundering in SE Asia being at the top of the list. But for his performance in his finest hour, may the Goddess hold him close to Her bountiful bosom now and forever, amen.
No, Peggy, m’dear, this was not JFK in the missile crisis. I don’t know if Obama would measure up to such a crisis, and I never, ever want to find out.
Pretty much, i don’t understand the point of this debate when Terr has already made up his mind anything Obama does is not only wrong but anyone defending him is an apologist.
The US and Russia have months and months of communications and assurances on the locations, sites, movement and control of major stockpiles of CW.
The UN weapons inspectors will be the physical presence on the ground probably escorted by Syrian military personnel. The plan is the UN inspectors start inventorying the weapons and then make plans to move the third largest stockpile of chemical weapons to a secure location where they can be systematically destroyed.
I’m not sure how Putin’s offering to give Obama what he wanted as the most prized objective of taking military action actually neutralizes Obama. Perhaps you can explain that theory in a bit more detail.
You are 100% correct and I think Assad will have the middle option between winning and losing which will be what I believe Putin is driving at the need for a transitional government which keeps the Russian Navy harbored in Tartus. The Assad’s go live in Russia somewhere and Putin keeps his Navy in the region. Getting rid of CW is huge for Putin too. This is a win/win for Putin and Obama but Putin’s the one now who has to deliver.
You’re totally forgetting that the situation has changed.
If somebody’s hitting you with a bat, and someone else comes along and says “give me the bat or I’ll shoot you”, then that is clearly better than ignoring the situation in the first place. What you cannot force yourself to consider, and that is the problem with a lot of Obama haters, is that the threat of force now changes the equation and Syria now actually has an incentive to secure and turn over the CWs. Why don’t you take a moment to think about this: Obama’s not trusting Syria any more than he can throw them, the strikes are still on the table, only this time, Syria’s offering to give up the weapons (compared to not giving up anything before) if we don’t strike them. Compare that to just going ahead and bombing Syria, this gives us the opportunity to avoid all that
By the way, I didn’t read that. That’s #1
LOL, Peggy Noonan? She has about as much credibility as taint sweat
No you!
Esteemed smart ass Jon Stewart on Miss Peggy:
http://aattp.org/jon-stewart-slams-journalist-hack-peggy-noonan-over-obama-criticism-video/
There’s an ad. Sorry. Brief.
Not to give PN any credit here (not a fan), but I did hear an analysis by Michael Beschloss last night (well respected presidential historian), and he was comparing the two situations. He was discussing recordings (or transcripts) of cabinet meetings. The SecDef (MacNamara) was telling Kennedy that missiles in Cuba didn’t change things significantly and Kennedy responded that he had earlier said it would be a game changer so he had to stick to his guns no matter what.
Anyway, if Beschloss can make the comparison, I wouldn’t fault anyone else for doing so.
Peggy Noonan is bitter and broken in spirit in that piece. She rambles on and on. If it were a record played backwards we’d hear Obama is No Good over and over.
She writes…Obama…must know…
According to the Russians the CWs have been moved and centralized to sites well out of reach of rebel territory. Does Noonan think every square kilometer of Syria is raging with civil War?
The UN sent a team in to investigate the August gassing of 1400.
Putin has probably figured out that Assad can survive or get to a Russian friendly transitional government without chemical weapons. So CW have no value to Putin and are not worth the posibilty that Assad’s conventional weapons could be degraded such that what opposition group that prevails will not embrace a Russian presence on Syrian soil.
Noonan can’t hear anything but GW Bush whispering in her right wing ear that evil doers won’t let the UN inspectors in. Noonan has no objectivity left if she ever had any at all.
I went a little too far with the “no matter what”, but essentially correct.
Not a PN fan either, but I did like something in her blog post from a few days ago and I appreciate her noting it, Why America is Saying ‘No’
Of Americans who watched Obama directly there are 61% who approve of his policy on Syria. That is quite good. When our CinC gets photos of Syrian CWs being loaded on to ships on their way to destruction, where must that number go from there. There will be much right wing dismay at such a signifucant improvement in our long term national security.
Bookmarked. To point and laugh in a while when no such thing happens.
You are probably right that this can’t go smoothly. But GOP partisans had better get in their laughing this year, because the favorable publicity when the Affordable Care Act kicks in next year will wipe off those smiles.
And maybe even higher for people like myself who read the speech text.
Of the 61% who watched Obama’s speech, 100% were already in favor of his policy.
Next?
You call what Putin is doing a win for Obama? He’s been spanking Obama on a daily basis over this. There is no domestic support for this. There is no international support for this.
That made me laugh out loud.
How do you make such a claim? And part of his policy is to test the diplomatic route.
Just before the Iraq invasion polls showed 60% favored Bush letting inspections continue and getting UN Sanction. The mood in the public is eerily the same favoring diplomacy over military action. And Bush was attacking Iraq by playing his popular 9/11 card.
You can say Putin spanked Obama but you are at a loss to explain how the rightwinger’s have justified coming up with just another hit Obama narrative that contradicts reality, historical reality and common sense.
Putin caved early despite Obama’s lone cowboy threat to degrade Assad militarily. Putin cannot assume that Obama as CinC does not believe that Obama has the authority to order strikes and that Congress and US public opinion against them will deter Obama from carrying through with his threat.
Putin has troubles at home too. If Russia loses its only strategic military asset/port in the Mediteranean he’s not getting a spanking he’d be getting an ass whipping like a Russian President has never seen.
So Putin caved because Putin has military assets to lose.
Obama may lose politically in the short run but has time to recover if the strikes occur and all the antiwar crowd’s doomsday scenarios do not occur.
Netanyahu wants Obama to strike Syria - the right wingers aren’t mentioning him much like the usually do.
So Putin has to be worried if Netanyahu and want Assad hit.
Tell me if Russia or the US has more to lose in tangible military assets if Assad’s regime falls.
If your answer is Russia then tell me how in the hell Putin spanked Obama by offering to give Obama exactly what Obama wants to achieve with military action. Military action that is still on the table and I doubt it comes off the table unless Syris is verified disarmed.
Does anyone think the Joint Chiefs will not carry out strikes if the Commander in Chief orders them?
Why would Putin think such a rediculous thing?
He saw Clinton do Kosovo not that long ago.