Can anyone help me fix a free computer?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Howdy!

This is my first post in months, but if a few of you kind dopers can help me out then I will be a posting fool pretty soon (on second thought, that might not be any incentive to help).

Here is my problem/opportunity:
My father-in-law bought a Dell computer this spring and last month it was hit with a nasty power surge (their house was hit by lightning and the cable modem was singed) and some of the computer components were fried.

His homeowners insurance paid for a new computer so he gave the struck-by-lightning one to me. Before his generous donation he had taken it to a computer service place to see what it would take to fix it, and was told it needed the following parts:

  • Motherboard
  • Modem
  • CD Rom drive
  • Hard Drive
  • Sound card
    It needed a new power supply as well, but he already replaced that.

The person at the computer store said he could get all the parts for under $300 and could install everything for an extra $150. My father-in-law said “screw that, I’ll have my insurance company buy me a shiny new computer” (or words to that effect). His insurance company came through and he then gave the broken computer to me.

So anyway – I figured if I could get this thing running, I could have a nice comuter (Pentium 4 and everything) for less than $300.

So here is where the savvy Dopers come in. I don’t want to pay someone to install parts in a computer; I figure I can handle that end myself (hopefully). But then again, I haven’t been inside a computer since the last time I owned one, which was way back in ‘85 when I had that bitchin’ Apple IIe. So tell me – is this doable for a relatively intelligent person (me, hopefully) who has never cracked open the case of a modern computer before? The questions bouncing around in my head so far are:[ul][li]I assume I can order parts on the web and they will fit a Dell computer, correct? Dell doesn’t have any proprietary components, do they? [/li][li]What is a good source for ordering computer parts?[/li][li]Can I upgrade over the original parts when I order (i.e. get a bigger HD than the 20 GB one that went kablooey, put in more than the 128MB of RAM it came with)?[/li]Is there anything I need to be aware of that will trip me up?[/ul]Any advice you can give me would be much appreciated, and would speed me on my way to becoming an actual home computer user.

2

  1. I’m not sure about Dell parts, so the answers to the other questions will depend on whether you can use non-proprietary parts in the machine.

  2. I use www.pricewatch.com to find low prices. You have to be careful of the stores, but I’ve never been burned. I’ve ordered from tcwo.com, accessmicro.com, and more than I can count.

  3. Yes on all counts. This should be true even if you have to buy from Dell.

  4. Be sure you’re grounded before you start messing around inside.

Be sure ALL of the cables are unconnected, but especially the power cable. Don’t just shut the machine off and start messing around inside or you’ll end up with another fried mobo.

Make sure you have a heatsink on your CPU before you even think of powering it up. It only takes a few seconds to fry it.

Take it slow and easy. Most components only fit in one place, and most mobos are screenprinted with the names of the slots (they’re in a 2 point font, but they’re there).

Before you go out and buy all those components, see if someone can double check whether they’ve all been blown or not. I’ve blown CPUs and mobos without ruining all the other components.

And finally, never plug a PS2 mouse or keyboard into a running computer. I learned this one the hard way. Did you know your computer doesn’t like it when you don’t have a working keyboard connector?

3

Hm. Considering everything that’s broken, looks like all you’ve got is an (inferior) case and a floppy drive. You’re better off just building an entirely new computer from scratch. It won’t run much more than what the computer shop told you and it will be EXACTLY what you want…

4

  1. I did the same thing recently. Many of dell’s newer parts are not proprietary, to allow the buyer to upgrade.

  2. pricegrabber.com also works.

  3. DeadlyAccurate is right on here.

  4. Make sure that you put the ram in the right way. (stupid mistake i made)

  5. Read the instructions several times, because they can be a bit confusing, especially if they were translated from japanese.
    On the rest of this stuff, listen to DeadlyAccurate.

5

Hey man! Still happier than the horses shite? :slight_smile:

6

Personally, I’d just buy a new case, all the necessary bits (most of them), and salvage what’s left out of the Dell.

If you do want to work with the Dell cases (some of which are quite nice, so I wouldn’t blame you), follow these steps:

  1. Disconnect every cable you see, and pull everything (cards, drives, CPU etc.) out of the computer.

  2. Remove the motherboard tray.

  3. Remove all the screws holding the mobo on. Don’t lose any.

  4. Remove the mobo.

  5. Unscrew (or otherwise remove) all the spacers from the motherboard tray (these are the things the mobo should have been resting on, holding the mobo off the nasty metal mobo tray). Again, do not lose.

  6. Hold your new mobo above the mobo tray, and figure out which spacer holes you’ll be using (these should, obviously, correspond with the screw holes in your new mobo). Try and use as many spacers as possible.

  7. Re-install spacers, in the holes you’ll be using.

  8. Place the mobo gently on the spacers, do not let it touch the nasty shorty-outy metal mobo tray.

  9. Screw the mobo in (in the screw holes that have spacers under them). Press down gently, but firmly, on the memory slots, PCI/AGP slots, and if the board flexes more than “just a little” you may have done something wrong (screws too loose, maybe, or bad spacer positioning).

  10. Install your RAM and CPU, and CPU cooler.

  11. Place mobo tray in case, make sure all the ports at the back line up with their cutouts.

  12. Connect power supply cables to mobo.

  13. Put in your video card, hard drive, floppy, and CD-ROM drive. Connect keyboard and mouse.

  14. Test boot, and if all works well, install your OS. (If all doesn’t go well, remove components one by one until it does. Save the graphics card for last.)

  15. Boot into Windows, poke around to see if everything is working properly.

  16. If so, install all your other cards.

  17. Install drivers, download Windows updates, etc.

7

Use some of the old stuff, but start with this instead:

Dimension 4500 desktop P4-2.4Ghz w/faster 533Mhz bus 128MB DDR/20GB 48x CD, XP Home MS Works, Ethernet card $679 - 10% off coupon - $150 rebate = $461 shipped free. Do not select free ram upgrade.
Select Desktops, Choose Dimension, Customize It under 4500, 2.4Ghz/XP Home/Basic Audio, 128MB/1yr/20GB/48x CD, Continue, Add to Cart, Add coupon code: 42AB04C56FE3 (techbargains.com)
Yes, a p4 2.4ghz for $461.00 US

Also, a note for computer guys:
Effective Oct. 1: Maxtor SHORTENED their warranty from 3 year to 1 year! This goes to show how reliable they feel their drives are. Western Digital continues with a 3year warranty. Drives continue to be a weak link in computer reliability as they are mechanical in nature…

8

ANother suggestion is to replace one thing at a time.

You have a new PS - I would start with just a motherboard, memory (one mem modual), video card, cpu - leave out the modem, HD’s sound, CD, - make it as simple as you can and try to boot it - if you get something then start adding components if you get nothing then your cpu might be dead or somethign else.

Do you have another computer to test parts on?

9

Thanks for the responses so far – you’ve given me lots of info to go on.

As far as getting a new case goes…I hadn’t thought of that, so I may look into it. I’d prefer not to, mainly because I don’t want to just waste a perfectly good case (besides, the case is awful purty and matches the monitor, keyboard, speakers, etc. Esthetics gotta count for something, don’t they?)

My goal is to do this as cheaply as possible so I am looking to only buy what I absolutely need. I have to have enough money left over to buy Microsoft Office Professional. Which brings up another questions – Do you know if I can get it at the upgrade price ($325 or so) or do I have to spring for the non-upgrade package ($550!) since I won’t be getting it as part of a pre-built computer package?

As for testing the parts on another computer, no can do. This will be my one and only computer if it works.

Deadly and KK and k2dave- Thanks for the detailed instructions. I’ve bookmarked this thread and I’ll be sure to print it out when I’m sitting at my kitchen table staring at a pile of computer guts.

Coldfire - I’m not quite up to being happy as the horses shite just yet, but if I can get this baby up and running there’ll be glasses steaming and vessels bursting. (as an aside, I read your Pit thread about poor ol’ Shane and thought you nailed it spot on. It’s a shame and a pity. When he finally gives up the ghost it will be one of the saddest wastes of talent ever. And it won’t take anyone by surprise).

10

I’d say that there is a fair possibility that some of the components survived.

If you buy a new mobo, try installing the existing processor and RAM first - it may be salvagable. At any rate, you can re-use the heatsink (and maybe the CPU fan, too) - you’ll need new thermal paste for the heatsink though - its basically a tacky heat transfer material that is applied to the heatsink before anchoring it to the processor.

I’d then try the video card, and see if the system will POST (Power on Self Test). If not, it should at least beep to indicate that the video/RAM is bad.

From what I undertstand, Dell uses a standard ATX form factor, so any third party motherboard should fit and mount in the case nicely. Thats really the only proprietary thing you’d need to potentially worry about

For vendors, I really like http://www.tcwo.com - good prices, good people, and $6.95 shipping.

You can order full OEM versions of MS office from them, too. OEM versions are basically what manufacturers like Dell use when imaging their systems - all the features of the retail version, except no nice box/manuals/warranties (warranty is not an issue on software, but if you buy, say, an OEM Pentium 4, you’d won’t be able to return it if it fails. tcwo sells both retail and OEM versions of most hardware.

If you do use an online seller, check http://www.resellerratings.com to see how well other people rate them.

Other than that, you should have no problems. There are numerous online tutorials (tcwo even has videos), and any mobo you buy should include basic instructions. Good luck!

11

Forgot to add…

like you asked, you can upgrade existing parts, but the key is the motherboard to select - typically, they will only support one type of RAM and CPU. most vendors should be able to help you chose a compatible combination.

Video Card and hard drives can pretty much be selected at will. For hard drives, the mobo will indicate which ATA spec it supports - just select a corresponding hard drive with the same spec (any will work, but if you buy an ATA133 drive with and ATA100 mobo, you’ve paid a little more for a spec that computer can’t support - it will simply work at ATA100 transfer rates.

if you’re not a gamer, do not spend a lot of money on a video card. In fact, some mobos have onboard video and sound, and do not need add-in cards. Performance enthusiasts usually dont like these, but their fine for an average user (non-gamer or graphics developer) and can save you $$.

If you need help picking components, email me (in profile). For the price the computer repair guy was charging, I guessing he was picking low-end and would try to re-use whatever was still working in the box.

12

Sadly, joe, TCWO got rid of their $6.95 shipping just a few short weeks ago. Now it’s “starting at $3.95.” But they have this in their favor: when we bought a CPU and blew it immediately by adding thermal paste to the heatsink when it already had a piece of thermal tape on it, they replaced it with no complaints and all we had to pay was the return shipping. They were absolutely wonderful about that.

13

I didn’t see anyone post this: On newer Dell systems, the ATX power supply connector is non-standard. So either get a Dell MB and PS or non-Dell MB and PS. Don’t mix and match. (Unless you have verified they have the same wiring.) This was brought up in a thread just last week.

I strongly urge that your first “smoke test” have the minimal devices attached: video, floppy, keyboard. No HD, etc.

14

Just wanted to bump this to thank you guys for your help.

As it turned out, the patient was in worse shape than originally diagnosed. So I scrapped the idea of trying to work with the Dell box and do it one part at a time. Instead I just sprang for a whole new already-assembled (and non-Dell) box. It wound up costing a little more than I originally thought I would spend but still reasonably within my budget. And I had enough $$ left to get MS Office, so I’m all set.

So thanks again for taking the time to give me advice. I appreciated it.

And next Wednesday the friendly Charter guy will show up at my house and hook me up with a cable modem and I’ll be stylin’.:):slight_smile:

Then I’m back on the SDMB for good, baby!

15

The moon is clear
The sky is bright
I’m happy as the horses shite!

Congrats on the new box. :slight_smile:

16

Well,

The problem may be more difficult than the computer fix-it company presented for two reasons:

  1. They probably only ran diagnostics on some componants. Running tests aren’t free, and in some cases they wouldn’t be able to tell there was a problem. The list you mentioned is a lot of things to fail. If I had three of that list go wrong at once, I’d scrap the computer.

  2. There’s a common misperception that all damage caused by electric shocks shows up right away. In fact, the opposite is true: the damage caused by electric shocks is often invisible, causing chips to have reduced life, or gradually building up (after more shocks/surges/etc) until something does fail.

You have no way of knowing whether you’ll get an economic return from repairing the computer. If you invest the money in a new computer (or even a functioning computer a couple years old) you’ll be taking much less of a risk.

Finally, Apple IIe is a long time ago. I used to own one, and of course had to fiddle around a little to get things running. Sometimes things now are as easy as back then, other times it’s hours on hold with different manufacturers, each claiming the other is at fault. My motherboard alone has a 80 page manual, with dozens and dozens of settings, some of which are not explained to my satisfaction. If you want to fiddle, great. Just be prepared to blow a few days getting things right.

17

Congrats on your new computer! I hope it’s really cool and stuff.

  • KKB, living vicariously