I can’t and I live there. Its governed by terrorists, the Labour party want rid of it to please the Irish, the Irish politicians want it back because it looks good to their voters, American politicians want it handed over to please their voters and the only people who want it to stay as part of the UK show their support by blocking the roads and burning cars. It was created to please the descendants of Protestant settlers and the heavy industry that was supposed to it has died. Can ANYONE justify its existance? I rather like it here. When we are not rioting and blowing each other up.
This is a real dilemma: too small to be a country and too large to be an insane asylum.
Does the rest of Ireland really want it? Hell, even Jordan gave up on the West Bank.
“This is a real dilemma: too small to be a country and too large to be an insane asylum.”
This does actually put things into perspective somewhat.
Well historically of course the justification was that the Protestants up north didn’t want to join the Free State and so the province was artificially created to keep them happy. And then the justification was that it should stay “British” because the majority of the people wanted it to be (although why the majority-nationalist counties in the North weren’t seen to have the same right to self-determination is another issue). Nowadays the main reason it exists is that everyone’s scared shitless of what the loyalist paras would do if the Brits pulled out. “Bloodshed on a scale previously unimagined” was the way someone described the likely outcome.
There’s still a strong sentimental attachment here to the notion of a united Ireland and I do know quite a number of people who actively support the cause in one way or another - but it’s fair to say that it really isn’t a pressing issue for a lot of the people here. I’d imagine that if Britain were to offer the North back, there would be some debate here (mainly because of the violence issue) but I couldn’t see the Republic just saying “no thanks”.
They will never give it back to the Irish. Never.
The most anyone can ever hope for is that the killings stop.
There is no political solution. There is no solution.
That has to be the most depressing thing I’ve ever seen on this board.
And there have been some too.
I take it you mean the British government.
It’s not up to them anymore. Only the people of NI can decide to join the Republic by referendum.
As for the rest of your post I’m afraid I mostly agree with you. There is just so much passion involved on both sides that a solution is almost impossible IMO.
When the recent agreement was signed you had some Republicians saying that it was wrong because it cemented the union and on the other hand some unionists where saying that they where being sold down the river and this was the first stage of a united Ireland. These reactions where about the same document . 
As to whether we in the Republic want NI back. Although the referendum to remove our constitutional claim to the 6 counties passed with a big majority I would say that yes the majority of Irish citizens would welcome all of our countrymen/women back to the fold. There is a fear of moving the troubles down south but as ruadh has already said there is a "strong sentimental attachment " .
sigh .
I believe this is not an overstatement. It doesn’t bear thinking about and no peacekeeping force (UN or otherwise) could ever hope to hold the Protestants in check, IMHO.
And if the Loyalists started the IRA would fight back and then it really would hit the fan .
Well, you know what they say about possession being nine-tenths of the law. Britain may have agreed to let the North vote itself out of the UK but it wouldn’t be the first time they’ve refused to uphold their part of an agreement on this subject - witness what happened to the Boundary Commission in 1925. I don’t think they could get away now with the deliberate sabotage they pulled on that agreement, nor do I think they’d really want to, but you can’t blame folks for being suspicious.
The way that Eire seems to be run by the church is one obstacle but if if were not that there would be something else.
The unionists think that all they have to do is wait for the current labour administration to be replaced by the tories and they will be back on top again.
Many of the problems lie with the disproportionate balance of power that the unionists have enjoyed.
By giving comfort to the unionists over the years the tories have not helped things along.
It is only when labour get in that any real attempt on progress is made, with the exception of the last couple of years of the John Major government and they were only brought to the table by the economic damage that the IRA threatened to unleash with demonstrations in docklands and Manchester.
Contrary to some opinions the best armed group in NI are not the IRA. How many Catholics in the RUC ? or the TA which is used as the UDA training wing ?
Brits in general would like nothing better then to leave but as long as there is so much hate we would be at the centre of world and especially US condemnation if the inevitable civil war happened when we did, then again we get criticised for staying as well.
This was true but a lot has changed over the last decade or two. The church has lost a lot of it’s influence . The likes of Ian Paisley will always keep this argument up and try to literally put the fear of God into their constituents.
Pushkin,
If the existance of Northern Ireland spares more lives than it takes, I think it justifies itself.
If abandoned, NI has the potential to become another ‘hell on earth’, like the Balkans.
I dont think anyone wants that.
This disinterested observer thinks that Northern Ireland should be a part of Ireland, so long as there are adequate constitutional provisions to protect the rights of what would then be a Protestant minority.
Speaking of which, is there a constitutional separation of church and state in Ireland? If not, and if I were a Protestant in Northern Ireland, I would be very worried about my prospects after a merger.
Not in the sense that there is in the US, but then, few countries go as far as the US does in separating church and state. You can read what the Irish Constitution has to say about religion here.
There are plenty of Protestants in the Republic, and increasing numbers of people of non-Christian faiths. They haven’t got much to worry about.
Remember that we are talking about a large minority here and they have access to plenty of weapons.
If unity is achieved without their consent not only would there be violence but the economic damage would be huge.
Given that the US will not meet its financial obligations to the UN for its own reasons, who will pick up the tab?
Peacekeepers would have to be involved and British troops surely could not be used, being regarded as partial by Irish standards.
Europe maybe ought to but it is true to say that US money has financed the struggle and would bear some moral responsability for the result.
When the likes of Paisley are either dead or marginalised there might be real progress but Eire could help things along in that regard by passing laws that would enshrine the rights of the Protestants.
This would likely run into huge opposition within the Dail(sp?)
They would be Irish Citizens and have the same rights as everyone else ( which is more than Catholics had in NI for a lot of it’s history ).
A lot of people have the impression that the Republic has the same Religious tensions as NI . This is simply not true , it doesn’t really matter what religion you are down here .*
- It only matters to bigots and we have them the same as any other country.
I assume that was a simulpost casdave, either that or you didn’t read my link. Those rights already exist - and not just on paper.
The fact that people even think there would be “huge opposition” to giving Protestants rights kind of shows you the enormity of the problem Ireland is up against.
What rights would need to be enshrined that aren’t already in place for all Irish citizens ?