I’d like to try an inexpensive pen with a fine italic nib.
Felt tip would be fine for a start, but so far all I can find are calligraphy felt tips which tend to be expensive (well, for a felt-tip, anyway), not fine enough for my tastes, and too heavy–the ones I’ve tried seem to bleed through normal paper.
I’ve heard a lot of good things about “stub” nibs, but I can’t find anything below the $100 range, and I’d rather not make that kind of investment until I’ve decided I really like that type of nib.
Because of bad past experiences, I refuse to buy cheap Shaeffers (leaky and tempermental) or “Penache” pens (takes too long to get the ink flow started). I’ve seen Parker Calligraphy sets, but it’s a whole set for thrity-five bucks, an I don’t need four nibs, just one fine one. If anyone can vouch for the quality of the set, though, I might spring for it.
I’ve seen instructions for cutting the ball off a nib to make an italic, and I’d be willing to do that with an el-cheapo pen (like a Parker Vector or one of those really cheap ones whose brandname I don’t remember), if the results will be useable. Heck, my favorite pen right now is one where the lefthand tine of the nib was accidentally broken off. It’s very expressive, but I have to hold it at a finicky angle.
Anyone use an italic nib? Any recommendations or caveats?
I’m not exactly sure what you want, so if I go off on the wrong tangent, I hope you’ll forgive me.
If you’re talking about dip pens though, it’s hard to do better than Speedball nibs. Inexpensive (last time I bought one, it was less than $2, but that was some years ago) and available in many sizes and shapes–IIRC, their “C” series was good for italics. A good pen nib holder lasts pretty much a lifetime, and is likely less than $5. And a pot of Osmiroid ink was less than $3.
It’s been a long time since I’ve done any calligraphy, but I don’t recall “starter” equipment (nib, holder, and ink) being very expensive, and I can’t imagine prices for such basic items have increased that much. The Parker and Sheaffer calligraphy sets, while good, were always pricy, though.
Look for these items at art supply stores, not in a stationery store. Or you may be able to order online.
I’ve never heard of an italic nib. I’d always assumed italics were made by the way you write them. So… I don’t know if this will help. You can get inexpensive fountain pens from Levenger. For example, a Waterman “Phileas” pen is $40. (You can get them cheaper at Office Depot.)
Thanks for the suggestions, guys, but that’s not quite what I’m looking for, so maybe I should clarify.
Not looking for dip pens, but rather a felt tip or fountain pen with a fine (in the sense of narrow, not in the sense of quality) italic nib (url=“http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/pens/callignib.jpg”]like this, but even finer than that, if possible). I’d like a fine tip because it’s easier to use for everyday writing, as opposed to painstaking calligraphy.
Johnny,, you’re right to some degree that the italic alphabet is a set of letter forms. It looks nice with a regular nib, but it’s exceptionally nice when an italic nib is used. An italic nib produces narrower lines for upstrokes and thicker lines for downstrokes. Here’s a neat example: http://www.io.com/~tyrbiter/whyoldpens.html Scroll down to find handwriting (in what is basically an italic alphabet) with an ordinary nib and an italic nib, and notice the variation in the width of the line in the italic example.
The sample also has a line written with an older pen with a more flexible nib, which also shows nice variation in line thickness, but I am not ready to dive into the antique pen market yet–and modern pens designed with flexible nibs are outrageously expensive.
(I do have two nice Watermans, BTW: an Expert, and a Laureat.)
I like the idea of grinding the nib on the el-cheapos - I feel a project coming on… I’ve done it on a few older pens with trashed nibs that I’ve restored, with varying results.
Have you considered a vintage Esterbrook pen? They’re usually pretty inexpensive ($10-20), look good, and a large range of Renew Points (an interchangable section, feed, and nib) was manufactured for these pens. More info here and here. Easy to change - just screw in a new one and completely change the appearance of your writing. They’re fairly easy to find on the web, but italic and stub nibs are becoming a little scarce. If I recall the last one italic I bought cost about $12. As far as I know a fine italic nib was not manufactured, but in my experience the Renew Points seem to run a little fine so a medium may work for you. They also tend to be a little on the stiff side. Hope this helps.
Lamy makes an inexpensive italic nib pen, I bought one and it was about $30. Darn it, I cannot find it in an online catalog and I don’t remember the model name. It’s not like their cylindrical and stubby Safari model, it’s longer with a thin conical end to the handle, with a little red plastic mark on the end. Don’t know if that helps you identify it, but it’s worth hunting down this model. I bought it for formal handwritten letters but I liked it enough to use it for everyday writing, I even used it to take notes in classes. Very fluid writing…
Is this the one you’re thinking of, Chas.E? Looks interesting. I think I’ll have to get one and try it out. The price is certainly right. A converter is not included, and the only one I could find on their site is for the Safari. Might be worth checking into.
Yes, that’s the one, the “Joy” pen. It is a very pleasurable writing instrument. And cheap too.
If you need a converter, I assume that’s the little pump gadget to use bottled ink instead of ink cartridges. I’ve got a couple extra Lamy converters, I never use em, I could send you one.
Thanks for the kind offer, Chas.E. I went ahead and ordered the pen, and greatly prefer to use bottled ink. My email address is in my profile. Thanks again!
I dug out a Diplomat Magnum that I had in cold storage because I’ve never really liked the hexagonal barrel, which is supposed to promote proper grip. Presumably, my personal grip is highly improper, so this pen and I never really got along. Anyway, it seemed like a good choice because it has a plain stainless steel nib, no iridium. The nib is labeled M.
I ground down the nib using 150 (fine) sandpaper. (The website I found recommended 1500, but 150 was what I had around the house.) I just rubbed the pen back and forth on the paper, careful to keep it perpendicular to the sandpaper. A few up-and-down strokes on the sandpaper took care of any scratchiness. I didn’t really take much off, just flattened the tip very slightly, but it did make quite a difference in writing style.
The result was a fairly broad line, with slight variations in width that were noticable on close inspection. It glopped from time to time, but I wouldn’t be suprised if that was just a bit of grit from the sandpaper working its way out.
I decided not to do a “before” handwriting sample because I didn’t want to get the nib all wet and inky, but now I’m kicking myself–I coulda cleaned and dried the pen before starting, and it would have been very useful to have a direct comparison. But no, Poddy’s too impatient.
Anyway, I’d say it was a successful experiment. We’ll see how I like the pen after I’ve been using it for a while. And I’ll still be keeping an eye out for the pens you guys recommended.
I only opened this thread to find out what the hell an italic pen is.
People, let’s get this straight, in the interest of fighting ignorance: There is NO SUCH THING as an “italic” pen.
Sheesh. If you want recommendations on an item, at least learn what the item is called first.
Having spanked you for all that…
I believe you are looking for fountain pens. Cross makes a nice fountain pen that doesn’t leak. The nibs, which you can get in fine, ultra fine and medium, tend to wear down based on the user and how you hold your pen. So if you want to write in italics (and why anybody would want to do that I haven’t a clue, since all-italics make for poor readability.) I’d suggest not allowing anyone else to use your FOUNTAIN pen.
Sheaffer makes a crappy, cheap version, which tends to leak. Parker does as well. You might also check out disposable fountain pens – they don’t leak as much and there’s no cartridge replacement. Waterman also makes a nice one that doesn’t leak too badly. Those are a tad pricier than the Cross pens.
Calligraphy pens are a completely different item, and I know nothing about them.
Note: I do not recommend writing checks and/or signing important documents with fountain pens. The ink tends to fade with time.
On the upside, if you write by hand a lot, using fountain pens can prevent writer’s cramp. The ink is very liquid, so you don’t have to press as hard.
I have several. They are similar to calligraphy pens, true, but the slant is a bit different. also, they tend to have much finer nibs.
I do not recommend you “cut” or sharpen your own unless you have a lot of experience. sometimes in doining so, you will ruin the pen or create burrs in it that will scratch the paper enough to cause ink bleeds.
Rotring makes a very nice inexpensive one: about 17 bucks.
they are called “art pen”. though I dont know if you will like one for everyday…its quite long.
I only write with fountain pens as there really is nothing better.
I have been writing with my (stainless) Parker Vector nearly every day for nearly two decades and in this time it has performed flawlessly. Although it was inexpensive at $30.00 I would not group it with cheap pens. It’s like my Zippo lighter, simple and always reliable.
I did discover that Parker put out a Vector that came in a calligraphy set that included four different nibs (italic included) and saw one of these sets for sale on e-bay. They are actually a good place to find all manner of fountain pens and accessories. I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on one of these sets but finding Parker products here is really difficult.
The one drawback in using an italic nib in a fountain pen is that fountain pens aren’t usually designed to use the heavier and faster drying calligraphic ink which may clog up the pen. Using regular FP ink with a fine italic point might work okay as the line size isn’t that much different from the normal line width.
Dogzilla - time for a spanking of your own…
There is such a thing as a fountain pen WITH an italic nib so it is accurate to call it an italic pen.
If one has the skill to use said pen the writing is beautiful and more than legible.
Fountain pens are excellent for signing cheques or other legal documents because they do not emboss the paper as a fountain pen does, they leave little or no impression which can be copied.
Podkayne - you never let me know how the pen thing was going so I thought it would be better to bring this thread back rather than start another one…
I’ve been a busy little pen geek lately and have just finished customising the nibs on two of my pens, I thought this might interest you.
The first is a Sheaffer No Nonsense pen which had the nib damaged after one of the kids spiked it into what I believe was our kitchen table. This pen now sports a custom italic nib which is just under a millimetre in width, the depth of the nib is very fine and I guestimated it to be around .2 millimetres. It writes beautifully with nary a skip.
The other was a new Parker Award which I picked up new for about $8.00 Cdn. It only wrote one test line with the original point before I converted it into a medium stub point.
Both of these pens are now glass smooth no matter what direction you write in. One would never know that they are both “economy pens” by looking at the line they put down.
To do this I used 1500 grit paper for the initial reshaping then finished the nibs with a 1.5 micron cerium oxide sanding disk. This is the equivalent of a grit mesh of 13000 and this abrasive is normally used for polishing gemstones and glass. 5 disks cost me 12.95 and you can find these at any good jewellery or lapidary supply store.
Another item you will need is a jewellers loupe with at least a 10x magnification so that you can really see what you’re doing. They can be picked up fairly cheaply at any jewellers supply.
Besides this all you will need is a great deal of patience.
I also decided that my Rotring Art Pen with the 1 mm tip would be great if only I could carry it in my shirt pocket. It was a pretty simple job to shorten it by about an inch and a half and one would think it was originally made this way. It lays down a thick wet line and if you purchase one I would advise that you pick up a converter as it uses a great deal of ink.
By this time next year I hope to be designing and producing custom pens of my own. I am in the process of aquiring the tools I need and have already started working on some designs.
I used to use the cheap Shaeffer cartridge fountain pens in high school and college (BTW, I’m 27, this was just a few years ago). I thought the line it created was too thick, so I’d write with it upside down, or turned to the side, which created a finer line. Eventually it wore down so that it wrote very smoothly turned to its side, and the resulting line was ever so slightly calligraphic. (I think that’s the correct word – the up and down strokes were different shapes).
Does anyone else here think that black ink dries on the nib faster than blue ink? I was sure of it at the time, and only used blue-black ink.
I carry seven pens with me and usually use 6 different colours/types of ink. They are all slightly different in consistency.
The Sheaffer coloured inks I use are all pretty light while the Parker black does seem to be heavier. I also use Rotring universal cartridges (black) and this seems to be the heaviest ink I use.
One thing you might notice is that many coloured inks are labelled as being washable while most black ink is permanent.
