Ahh, ok, I have Mondayitis don’t mind me.
I was addressing my remarks to kanicbird, who clearly views embryos and fetuses as children. It makes little sense to me that someone who believes embryos and fetuses to be children would place a higher value on the life of those “children” than children who are raped and forced to give birth.
I’m still waiting for an answer from kanicbird.
You may be a better person that I am.
No, that is a question, not a statement.
What defines a human being is a difficult question to answer. Some say, first breath, some say a heartbeat, some say conscious awareness, and some people say its the DNA.
That assumes the case is known early enough for termination. Often the pregnancies of very young girls aren’t found out until delivery.
You also have to address utilitarianism vs fundamentalism. In a utilitarian stand point of view, the option that results in the least death and suffering of all parties involved would be the best option. In a fundamental point of view, the option that adheres strictly to the rule is the best point. For example, if you let a train cart run over 5 people when you could have pulled a lever that would change it’s direction to only roll over one person, the option to let it run over 5 people would be better because you didn’t actually kill anyone, you just allowed what was already going to happen.
Who are these people who say, ‘it’s the DNA’?
How is it the DNA? Can you explain what this part means please?
I saw something like that on this board once. It was an effort to define the zygote/embryo as human (and therefore immoral to kill) when the moment it established its own unique DNA pattern from the contributions of its parents, or something.
Then I asked if in the case of identical twins, it was okay to kill one, or something.
I know you are asking questions. I am asking if you have any opinions on the questions you are asking.
I just had a bowel movement. There’s DNA present. Would you care to apply to adopt it?
Apparently you have already given your position on what makes a human being:
Here we can see the non-neutral position you are taking, Care to defend your position that DNA is what makes us human?
BTW, that “in a moral/biblical sense” bit seems to tie morality and whatever religion you follow together rather tightly. Do you acknowledge that one can be moral and not follow your Bible?
So combined about 50% mortality, as in general a child dies and the mother lives, but yes almost 100% if we are talking about excluding the mothers from the mortality count. If we don’t like counting the child as a person in the case of abortion - which is understandable, then childbirth has a net negative mortality rate of about (-) 100%, which is, in general, very good for our species.
I didn’t say that the child comes first. I came to peace with the issue of abortion after many years of siding with the politics, rethinking, residing, etc and then throwing the whole thing out and deciding the issue based on our relationship with God and prayer.
I have come to the conclusion that 1: the fetus is fully a human being and a human life 2: It is as much the woman’s choice to destroy the body of the fetus as it is God’s choice to destroy the body of any person in the world. For we are created in the likeness of God and are to act as God would act. I would add 3: The woman can not cause the fetus to ‘die’ - but only destroy the body, as that relationship is between the fetus and God and God can spare people from (going through) death - basically God can take the ‘soul’ out of the body before the point of death (as seen in scriptures), which is based on the relationship taht soul has with God (and issues of free will).
I believe without acknowledging that the fetus is a human I could never accept abortion as something really helpful, and one that elevates us to really be in the image of God.
It is not a given in this debate that a small collection of cells is the same as a child, nor is it a given in this debate that we are all on the same spiritual path as you…or any spiritual path at all, for that matter.
If a responsible parent/guardian, a doctor, a judge, or the 12 year old herself decides an abortion is the right thing to do, so be it. It’s legal, often moral, and if you don’t agree, work to make abortion illegal again (and good luck with that).
nm
Putting aside your statistics for the moment, I’m having trouble following your logic. You believe humans are supposed to act as God would act, and since God destroys human bodies, people morally can, too? I realize you were referring to fetuses, but since you define it as a human body, then you’re arguing the murder of any living human is OK because God also smites people dead?
And you think if we do define a fetus as human, abortion is morally defensible, but if we don’t, it’s not?
FWIW, I don’t think a parent or a judge can legally compel an abortion over a pregnant minor’s objection.
Well, except her legal guardians …
Some hypotheticals are best unasked.
God has a voice in the discussion(although not a deciding voice) the day he shows up in person for a paternity test and it turns up positive.