This is from the “She’s Having a Baby” thread, but it is buried on page three and isn’t really on topic, so I’m starting a new one. Do you think a parent has the right to force their daughter to have an abortion? I don’t. I could conceivably understand forced adoption, but not abortion.
What do you think?
>^,^<
“Cluemobile? You’ve got a pickup…”
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I don’t think so, especially if the girl in question is old enough to voice her opinion. One is not unconscious when an abortion is performed, so I would think that if the girl is able to vocalize her objections, the doctor would not perform the procedure, regardless of what the parents have to say. At least, I would hope that the doctor would not do it.
I do not know what the law has to say on this, though.
I’ll assume that the girl still lives at home.
With that being said, yes. A child born to a child affects the entire family. What’ll be done with the child while its mother is at school? Who’ll pay for costs incurred during the pregnancy and after? What were the circumstances behind the “impregnation”?
I feel the girl’s lost the right to make her own decisions if she decided to become pregnant on purpose.
There are many variables (age, wealth of family, involvement of the father and his family, etc.), but without your having specifed them I’d have to say “yes.”
I think it would depend on my daughter’s age and her level of maturity. If she were 16 and fairly mature, then I would leave it up to her. But if she was 12 and still acted like a 10 year old, then I probably would make her get an abortion because I don’t think she could handle it, either physically or emotionally.
But, like Cristi said, I don’t know what the law about this subject is around here, so I couldn’t really tell you for sure what I would/could do.
Shadowfox
Wow, this is a hard one.
Offhand, I’d lean toward Chief Scott’s postion, with some modifications. It would all depend on the girl and the family involved. I’d hope each situation would be handled individually.
The case I’m thinking of is where the girl at age 15 was wild as a mink, sleeping with any carbon based life form available, a gang member and a drug addict. She got preganant, inevitably, and her parents insisted on the abortion.
In this instance, the exhausted parents were reluctant to take on raising another child, as the drug use and lack of prenatal care had already caused severe damage to the baby. And the siblings of the Girl From Hell were showing signs of problems, as there just wasn’t enough parental resourcs left over for them.
As awful as this issue is, I suspect there are many shades of gray. But somewhere in all the discussion, the hard, HARD reality of raising the child has to be considered. If adoption is rejected, then what? Who will put in all the years of sacrifice and loving it takes to rear a child?
Veb
Abortion or Adoption I would have to say no. Abortion is strictly a personal issue. You don’t force anyone to have a medical procedure agains their will.
Suppose your child was blind and there was an operation that could bring back her sight OR kill her. Would you force her to have that operation just because it is inconvenient or costly for the family because she can’t see. (which it would be. A child that can see obviously would be easier to raise)
If your child had acne would you make her take medicine for it, if she didn’t want to, just because her acne makes her look ugly and it shames you?
People don’t lose there rights just because they do something on purpose. We still treat AIDS cases (most of which are self induced) Lung Cancer (85% caused by first hand smoke).
I have nothing against abortion but it is soley an issue between the mother and the father. Nor am I saying the girl (or father) shouldn’t be responsible. If my daughter chose to have (and keep) the child and was 16. I would tell her fine but your action means you drop out of school, get your GED at night and find a job.
If she is old enough to get pregnent she is old enough to decided what to do with it and old enough to bear the results of her choice.
I’d be awfully surprised if the doctor would perform the abortion if the girl said no. I’d also be awfully surprised if the law would allow the girl’s parents to force her to have the abortion.
Applying force to another person without that person’s consent is assault, both civilly and criminally. Granted, parents can consent to medical procedures on behalf of their children, but only up to a certain age and maturity level of the child. Once that point is reached, the child has a say in the matter as well.
I would think that for something as major as an abortion, for a condition which is not life- or health-threatening, the parents could not override the girl’s objection.
Marxxx: your “if…then…” line falls apart when sense rears its head. It is possible for a female human at the ripe old age of 9 years to enter puberty and to become pregnant.
Now you’re not seriously saying a 9 year old is old enough to raise a child and get a job and have a plase of her own, are you?
If so, then you’re more of a moron than your posting evidences at present.
ChiefScott:
An adoption would take care of that situation perfectly.
>^,^<
“Cluemobile? You’ve got a pickup…”
OpalCat’s site: http://opalcat.com
The Teeming Millions Homepage: fathom.org/teemingmillions
Only after the child is born Opal.
What about prenatal care, care for the mother (child), new close for pregnant child, etc.
Am I, as a taxpayer, to be expected to pay for this bad, childish decision to become pregnant? Is the pregnant girl’s family?
New clothes… sorry.
Many adoption agencies have financial aid for pregnant women who are planning on putting thier child up for adoption.
>^,^<
“Cluemobile? You’ve got a pickup…”
OpalCat’s site: http://opalcat.com
The Teeming Millions Homepage: fathom.org/teemingmillions
First of all I said IF, that is a conditional statement. Where did I ever say a nine year old should get a job? I did not. When you quote please do so it makes sense.
Second, if a nine year old is pregnant you STILL must get her imput about having a medical procedure done.
Again substitue BLIND for BABY. IF she were 9 and blind and had a chance to see again and it could cost her her life, would you as a parent deny her say in the procedure. Simply because it is inconvenitent for you to not have her sighted. Would you say it is better to risk death and be able to see than to be alive and blind.
As my post indicated having an abortion should never be forced. Should a parent influence - YES. That is what being a parent means. But force a medical procedure on a child. NO.
So the 9 year old has a baby. You as a family DEAL WITH IT. If that nine year old got run over by a train and lost a leg. Would you give her away because it is inconvenient for you to take care of her. Because the money spent on trips to Disneyland must now go for her therapy. No you wouldn’t you would accept it, pay for the therapy, the same way you would help her raise her child till she’s 16 and CAN THEN go out and get a job.
The orginal post said force a kid to get an abortion. The word force means the kid doesn’t want to but you make her. If she wanted the abortion you wouldn’t have to force her.
All your doing by forcing a kid to unwillingly have an abortion is telling the kid that the way to deal with a problem is to throw it out. And I’ll bet when the parents(who force that child) get old and can’t take care of themselves the first place that child will put the parents is somewhere out of sight and mind. Because that is what they were taught.
Oh, I knew I’d regret getting involved in this…
The abortion is the major issue only in the sense that it’s the tough, awful, obscene choice confronting good people as to what’s the best to do. I doubt the most hardened loser doesn’t on some level agonize over this. There just isn’t a huge market out there for recreational abortions.
It always hurts, and the parties involved do not undertake the loss and the waste lightly. To assume they do is to belittle their pain. But that all begs the question: WHO WILL RAISE THE CHILD?
Before anyone invokes comfy platitudes, take a good long look at the realities of adoption. It’s awful, it’s wrong but it’s real: children of mixed race, developmental problems and/or older than the age of “cuteness” are rarely adopted. Children of abandoned families are rarely adopted and allowed to grow up with their siblings.
Kids aren’t theories, or policies. They’re living human beings who get thrown away, not because of anything they’ve done, but because it takes YEARS and EFFORT and SACRIFICE to rear them. Birth is easy, but rearing a child, well, that’s a miracle.
Until someone finds a solution to this waste of people, through abortion or kids thrown away, it will continue. It’s a failure of hope and heart and maturity. But it’s real, and anyone who condenses it into convenient platitudes belittles the human pain.
But *children are not theoretical"! A child, any child, needs at least a decade and a half solid committment of care, sacrifice and love to raise. Until that crucial question is answered, the problem will remain:
Who will raise the child?
Veb
The way I see it, the abortion should not even be a choice for the pregnant child. The parents should say, “No, absolutely not.” Let the child go through the embarassment of being young and pregnant. Let her go through the painful birth. Maybe she will learn her lesson. (Of course, the baby should be given up for adoption - there are many families out there who want to adopt but can’t because of “red tape”.)
I know from “experience” how embarassing it is. No, I was never pregnant. In 8th grade we did the “sugar baby” project where we were given bags of sugar and had to attach baby-doll heads, arms, and legs and treat it like a real baby for 2 weeks. We had to take it EVERYWHERE. Some of ours looked real from a distance, especially since they were wrapped in real baby blankets. You wouldn’t believe some of the looks my group of friends and I got. Sometimes people would look so disgusted at us, that we would walk over and show them the “babies” weren’t real. Talk about humiliation.
White Wolf
“Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.”
“Half the world is composed of idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them.”
White Wolf, that might be a good idea, if only teen pregnancy was the stigma it used to be. It isn’t anymore. That’s why there’s so many pregnant teens.
Shee.
I don’t want to tangle with anyone. But, I don’t see why another unwanted child should be brought into the world.
I don’t advocate abortion as a means of birth control. Proper measures should be taken before sex.
But I also don’t advocate, babies as substitutes for dolls; a means of getting love; and every pregnancy which is aborted legally as the reason why qualified people can not adopt.
As a head of a family with a pregnant daughter, you’d have to weigh other options. Even with financial support for prenatal care.
Your daughter would be dealing with quite a stigma, for quite a long time. Who’s gonna help her through with that.
What if in the third trimester of her pregnancy it is discovered the child would be born, underdeveloped or (goforbid) deformed? Who’d adopt the child then? Would the family be required to take care of it? Would the State take it off your hands once the “girl has been taught a lesson, by the pain of chilbirth”?
This isn’t even dealing with a minority or bi-racial child!
My mother has acted as foster mother for crack-babies biracial babies, hispanic babies, black babies, babies suffering from their mothers’ dependence to alcohol and a variety of other problems. She takes them from infancy 'til 2 years old – then they are put into permanent foster homes.
No one wants to adopt these perceived “imperfect” babies.
So taking that into account, if my daughter became pregnant at a very young age, I would like the option of aborting the pregnancy – even over my daughter’s objections.
I’m not saying that I’d do it… I just don’t want that option taken away from me as a parent.
I agree with Opal. Forcing someone to have an abortion is a lot like raping them, and there’s never a right reason for doing it.
Of course, I also support the untrammeled right of any pregnant female to obtain an abortion regardless of age.
Designated Optional Signature at Bottom of Post
Marxxx:
I’d love to; however, your if/then construction (and that’s what it was no matter how many times you shout “I said IF”) did not make sense itself–the “if” was followed by a nonsensical “then” statement. Deal with it. You did say the 9 year old should get a job etc. by using that if/then construction. Oh, my mistake. I guess being forced into parentage isn’t applicable to all females who gestate. At least in your view.
Now that that’s out of the way–
An abortion is a medical procedure. So’s giving birth, believe it or not. Now any ethical doctor (for those of you dead set against abortion at all costs: save the comments about abortion doctors not being ethical) wouldn’t force any patient to undergo any medical procedure. The salient point is that a minor’s consent to any procedure can be given, according to the law, by the guardians. Those guardians are usually the parents, but not always.
For those dead set against abortion: now let’s say this particular pregnant child was impregnated by either a rape or incest. What’s your take on that? Does the potential child (the fetus) have a right to life or not? If yes, then what about the danger to the pregnant minor’s life?
As an adoptee, I’d like to throw my two cents in. I apologize now for my ranting.
More than once in this thread ‘thrown away’ is used as a term for adopted babies.
I was not ‘thrown away’. My birth mother was 19 when she had me. She knew she could not provide a good, stable life for me. So she relinquished me. It wasn’t an easy decision, of course, and like the vast majority of birth mothers, I’m sure she went through emotional hell. I can’t even begin to tell you how angry I get when people use terms like ‘thrown away’. I was not ‘thrown away’ like a piece of trash. I was not unwanted. She knew she could not take care of me, so she gave me to someone who could. Any adoptees who feel ‘thrown away’ have some serious issues to deal with, because it’s just not the case. And how dare anyone else think so, let alone say so. It is an ignorant, uninformed attitude.
Wait lists for adoption are years long. My parents signed up in 1971, and they didn’t get me until 1980. The reason the lists are so long? People want to adopt children. There are more prospective adoptive parents than there are children. I know several couples who are foster parents for children with disabilities. My own aunt and uncle are foster parents who take in abused and disabled children, care for them, and eventually relinquish them for adoption. They have adopted several of the children themselves. They have up to 10 children in their home at any given time. Some of the children are as old as 16, and some are newborns. All of them are adopted with in a few months. This includes children of mixed races, babies born addicted to alcohol and crack, Downs’ syndrome, blind children, deaf children, you name it. They all end up in good, caring, loving, devoted homes.
Zulu