There was a recent thread about storing gasoline indoors. I am wondering about storing gasoline cans or approved plastic gasoline containers out on our balcony. Maybe four or five five-gallon containers.
Does the outdoor air prevent concentration of fumes? Logic tells me “of course”, but I thought I’d ask anyway.
Yes it would prevent concentration of fumes. The major risk would be if you had BBQ pit out there or something. Also, make sure that the gasoline won’t get any water seepage making it unusable. I store mine in a shed about 75 yards away from the house.
Thanks, Shagnasty.
No BBQ pit to worry about. Our upstairs neighbors do come out to smoke now and then … they’re about 10 feet above us on their own balcony. Guess I need to warn them?
Would simple contractor bags (the big, thick plastic bags that are about $5 for 10 at big-box retailers) suffice to prevent water seepage? Maybe I could place a few gas cans in a contractor bag, tuck the open end of the bag under the weight of one of the contained gas cans, and let it be?
Putting the cans in a sealed plastic bag defeat the whole point of putting them oudoors: preventing an accumulation of vapors.
The way to keep tehm from absorbing excess water is to ensure teh caps are on tight and they’re protected from direct rainfall/snowfall. Lay a sheet of plastic (painters dropcloth or cut up garbage bag) over the caps but do NOT tuck in the bottom of the shet. air must be able to circulate.
A proper container will have a vent to prevent excess pressure buildup. Don’t use an airtight container.
The plastic in trash bags is gasoline soluble. As mentioned, water infusion is not a concern with a proper container.
My only concern would be embers from a neighbor’s BBQ grill (abvove, below, or sideways) drifting towards the containers in a breeze. Some sort of shield to protect against this might be a wise precaution.
You might want to check appropriate state and local regulations. In addition, landlords or condo organizations may have their own rules.
Thankfully … there aren’t all that many barbecuing folks out here. The nearest anyone barbecues to our balcony is at least 100 yards … maybe a little more. They live at the far end of an adjacent building.
I’m much more concerned about the smokers upstairs than about BBQ grills around here. They don’t flick ashes or butts off the balcony, though. They’re pretty good about it.
I don’t know if I should bring this up in a safety thread but what the hell. When I was younger, I used to take cigarettes and throw them in little containers of gasoline to show my friends that it would not light. Some of them tried it too and no one ever managed one to catch on fire, explode, or anything else. Some people say it is possible but I could never figure out how.
My understanding is that liquid gasoline is not flammable, but gaseous gasoline (i.e. vapors) is highly flammable.
Now then, if you’ve got an open container of gasoline – like a bucket – and your lit cigarette makes it to the surface of the liquid gasoline without igniting any vapors … that, I can’t explain.
The vapors are not concentrated enough, and the ember on the cigarette is not big enough, to make ignition likely. I know a guy who used to work in a gas station. He used to throw cigarettes into puddles of gasoline, just to scare people.
Not that I would ever try it, mind you.
Is the plastic that gasoline containers are made of UV stabilized? How long are you thinking of storing it because some plastics go straight to hell in a very short time when exposed to sunlight.
Gary T, only the most recent ‘can’ I bought was self-venting and if was a diesel can. All of the gasoline cans have the screw-on capped vent you open when pouring, and if you’ve had the can in the sun for any time closed (doing yardwork for example) there is a heck of a pressure build up. Are these just cheapo cans?
-rainy
I’m looking at maybe a 7-10 days of storage. Two weeks would be the absolute tops.
They’d be in the shade much of the day, so I’m not expecting direct sunlight to be all that much of an issue. Also, the plastic these containers are made of can’t be that flimsy, can they?
You’ve jogged my memory. Now I remember that it’s actually a specific range of gasoline vapor-to-air ratios that are flammable. Too little gasoline vapor – and obviously too little air – and there’s no ignition.
On the subject of cigarettes and buckets of gas. There are two factors.
I would think the real reasons you don’t light the gas is that the cig is not hot enough.
Oh no, not that filmsy at all. You just didn’t mention if this was a short term, or long term, private emergency stash ala Burt Gummer; “Food for five years, a thousand gallons of gas, air filtration, water filtration, Geiger counter. Bomb shelter! Underground… God damn monsters.”
-rainy
Absolutly! 1.4-7.6%
BZZZZT! Thank you for playing.
853 degrees to ignite gas? WTF?
Various Oil company’s MSDS sheets list autoignition temps ranging from 460-536 F. And Gas as having as being harder to light then paint thinner? I think the City of Phoenix got their numbers bass-ackward.
FTR, here is a cached Google page on how hot the tip of a lit cig is.
A cig has enough temp to ignite gas if all the conditions are correct. Just because you got lucky last time, and conditions were not perfect for ignition does not mean you will get lucky next time.
Good point. The reason I mentioned venting is the pressure build-up you refer to. Since bordelond doesn’t expect much sun in his situation, it may not be an issue in this case.
But I did review the gas cans I have. The best one has a push-button vent, but I don’t recall if it’s self-venting. Another one has a snap-lid vent, and another is a screw-on. If I had to store them in the heat, and spillage wasn’t a concern, I’d open the snap-lid one and loosen the cap (to the point of just sitting on top of its threads) on the screw-on. I guess for the most part they don’t expect these cans to be sitting in the sun.
There won’t be much direct sun, but it’s still in the mid-90s in the shade here in SE Louisiana … and will be for the next few weeks. Is it more the direct sun that would be a issue, or is it the 90+ degree temperatures?
I addressed sunlight concerns above because I thought rainy was saying that some plastic gas containers fall apart rapidly when exposed to sunlight.
Temperature variation will cause pressure variation in a sealed container of gas. If it gets hotter than the temperature was when the container was closed, there will be some pressure; if it gets cooler, there will be some vacuum. It’s probably not a big deal unless there’s a significant difference between the high and low temperatures involved. If in doubt, crack open a vent as described above.
Being exposed to sunlight can cause a significant temperature/pressure rise in the container which goes beyond the ambient temperature, similar to that of a car parked in the sun.
Most states do have laws against storing flamable liquids on balconies, because all hydrocarbon vapors, except methane are heavier than air.[sup]1[/sup]
If any gasoline is spilled or if the “pop off” is released due to exessive ambient air temp, ( usually over 70°F) the resulting vapors will accumulate in the appartment below.
that would be, “at 70°F. These limits change with temperature variations.”[sup]1[/sup]
[sup]1[/sup] Essentials of Fire Fighting third edition