Can I prepare for a nuke?!

The blast radius of even a big bomb is about 5km, so by no means would most of the island be in the blast radius. Added to that I gather that Oahu slopes up fairly steeply in the middle meaning that 2/3 of the island would be totally sheltered from the initial effects.

The actual blast from an atomic bomb is impressive but it’s still comparable to many WWII or Vietnam era bombing raids in terms of energy and damage. It’s not the blast that is the real problem, it’s the associated fallout and social chaos that would take most lives. The dilemma is what all those people are going to do on a small island when the main city is destroyed, there are tens of thousands of wounded and there is no help coming from the mainland.

In all fairness to 50s civil defense films, duck and cover was (and is) very sound advice. It was laso never intended to provide protection form nuclear radiation in the classic sense of the word. A large proportion of the people injured in nuclear blasts are injured from flying debris and from radiant heat. Still more are blinded from looking at the blast. In the event of a nuclear attack ‘duck and cover’ is the best initial tactic. After debris has stopped being flung around by hurricane force winds and after the initial heat blast has gone by you can worry about more sophisticated techniques, but for the first minute or so: duck under a desk and cover you face.

I’m glad someone pointed this out. “Duck and cover” has become synonymous with silly, useless civil defense advice, but that’s a bum rap. Sure, if an atomic bomb goes off on the monkey bars right outside the class room, duck and cover won’t help. But if it goes off on the other side of Chicago, your little Janie and Jack might benefit from taking even minimal shelter instead of standing at the window and pointing at the pretty light.

It’s now considered so clever to snark at any civil defense advice, and “duck and cover” is the main target. Don’t get me started on duct tape…

When I was in the Army we would have NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) classes. One of the things they told us to do if we saw nuclear blast was to “turn our ass to the blast”, fall to the ground with our weapons under our bodies and start counting. We were to count how long it took between the blast and the shockwave so we could figure out how far away it was. We would then wait for the backblast of returning wind to pass us before we got up.

I was good friends with the NBC NCO and one night I asked him what he would do. He said that if you were close enough to see the blast then you were probably going to be blind so you might as well just put the rifle barrel in your mouth and blow your head off.

so much helpful advice. Thanks guy.

So I got a question. I unfortunately, live an hour east and a little south of Chicago. If a nuke hit Chicago (which wouldn’t be out of possibility) how long would you think it would take for fallout to hit me? The city is LaPorte Indiana if you want to map it up.

That’s what I thought when I read the first paragraph (but not being an ex-soldier or gun owner, I’d sort of wander round blind then die of thirst probably :tongue: )

This thread has a brief debate on whether or not the equator would keep you safe from fallout in the other hemisphere :slight_smile:

That’ll depend on the wind speed and direction, won’t it? Yes, the fallout will start very quickly after the blast, but it won’t start everywhere at once. If you’re upwind of the blast, the fallout will take a very long time indeed to reach you. And even if you’re downwind, if you can drive faster than the wind, you could outrun it, and then either circle around upwind, or go far enough downwind that it’d be diluted before holing up in a dust-sealed house.

Surbey, I don’t know the specifics for your location, but probably most of the winds in your vicinity blow either directly towards or directly away from the lake, depending on altitude and time of year. And an hour away is probably a respectable distance from Ground Zero (although remembering how the interstates were around Chicago last time I was there, that might only be a few miles). So you would probably have a pretty good chance to escape the fallout, even if you didn’t start driving until after the blast. Where you would drive to, though, I’m not certain. If Chicago were the only target, then I would advise you to drive in a direction tangent to the lake (away from Chicago, of course) in as close to a straight line as the roads allowed. But if there are multiple cities hit, that might just take you into the fallout plume from, say, Cleveland.

Here’s a great site for scaring the crap out of yourself. You can figure out what would happen if a nuke hit your town.

It’s not so scary if you zoom in; the concentric circles don’t resize them as the scale changes, so if you zoom all the way in, the bomb hardly does any damage at all. On the other hand, if you zoom out…

I agree entirely, in fact you’ve basically repeated what I already posted, although more clearly than I did. Just to clarify.

  1. If you’re upwind you are already essentially in a safe area. You won;t be moving into a safe area, you will at best be moving into a safer area. However driving on highways in the hours and days following a nuclear blast would be anything but safe. Massive numbers of crashes, instances of road rage and so forth coupled with an exhausted and overstretched emergency service network would make driving with small children far more dangerous than simply staying home. Since Shagnasty is concerned about post_Katrina style social breakdown I don’t think that he should be much more optimistic than I am in this regard. that. So even in the best case scenario trying to drive away from your home bomb shelter makes no sense for at least the first week or so. So if you are upwind your best bet is to stay put and rendezvous with your family at home.

  2. Yes it takes some time for fallout to reach you, but assuming it will reach you 30 miles downwind you won’t have more than a few hours. Believing that you will be able to sustain a speed required to outrun the wind following a nuclear attack is optimistic to say the least. It requires that not a single accident blocks a highway, that not a single person attempts to carjack you, there is not a single traffic snarl and essentially that there is no civil disturbance of any sort. These are not reasonable assumptions IMO. And if you do get stuck in a traffic jam for a couple of hours you and your kids are dead because you will be exposed to the fallout. So once again the best bet by far is to go home and wait out the worst of both the fallout and the traffic chaos.

So to re-iterate:

If your are outside any potential fallout zone, rush home and stay put. Hole up with food and water and wait until the highways are moving freely. That will certainly be at least a week. That also gives you time to listen to broadcast hat will inform you whether your assumed safe house is in a fallout zone. Only then move to your place in the country

If you are within any potential fallout zone, rush home and stay put. Hole up with food and water for at least the first two weeks to allow the worst of the fallout to pass. Only then venture out for supplies or to make your urn to the country if you feel you absolutely must.

The only time you shouldn’t be hurrying home to your bomb shelter is if you are absolutely sure your entire route and the destination are outside the fallout zone and the roads are clear the entire way there. That is never going to be the case for the vast majority of people.

That is very odd advice, particularly from a military man.

Firstly if you see the blast you won’t be blind unless you stare at it. Thousands of people saw the Hiroshima and Nagasaki blasts without going blind. A nuclear blast is considerably brighter than the sun, but you can stare at the sun for a minute or more without permanent blindness. Certainly glancing at a nuclear flash long enough to ascertain what it is will not cause permanent blindness. At worst you will suffer “flash blindness” which will pass after a few days. Hardly cause to kill yourself. This is why the duck and cover message is so important. If your first reaction to seeing the flash is to cover your eyes you are quite safe.

From a military perspective advising your soldiers to kill themselves because they might be permanently blind is just silly. I wouldn’t trust anything else that this man told you.

Duck and Cover (youtube vid) always works well… Strangely it also works for volcanos.

Oohh… found the full length of that first video.

Sorry 'bout the double post.

I am an officially certified Fallout Shelter Manager. I took the course, and everything. Back in the days of the Civil Defense Authority, I was even on the list that would give me civil authority should a whole lot of people die.

Fallout is not some mysterious gas that seeps into your shelter. Fallout is debris from the bomb, and stuff near the center of blast at the original detonation. It doesn’t grow. Fallout will not make other stuff become radioactive. It’s just plain old ordinary atoms, usually in fairly large (well, multiple micron sized at least) dust motes, and larger pieces of uranium, and fission byproducts, like strontium, and such. A certain amount of ordinary stuff is close to the blast, if it was a ground burst, and could be bombarded with neutrons enough to become radioactive. Mostly not, though.

The convection system, the famous mushroom cloud draws up a lot of stuff, and scatters it into the atmosphere. Most of it is not radioactive, but the fallout is mixed up enough to make that an unimportant fact. It generally takes about an hour for the heaviest particles to settle to the ground, and predictions are that one hour after the blast will be the peak radiation rate. If the bomb was not enhanced to increase fallout, it will begin to reduce fairly rapidly. Each sevenfold increase in time will produce a tenfold decrease in dose rate in any one place. (If it was fallout enhanced, forget it, those numbers are too dismal to even consider. Centuries would mean nothing.)

The worst part of the fallout will form an oval shaped zone, downwind of the blast center. For eight hours after the blast it is most likely that unprotected persons in the area will get a fatal dose of radiation in times of less than an hour, although they might well continue to function normally for days, or even weeks afterwards. Forty eight hours after the blast, the radiation rate will be one percent of the peak rate over most of the oval. Unprotected persons would be fatally exposed in times of less than a day.

In the most benign of circumstances, you can expect rescue efforts to begin after two days. You have to convince everyone not to leave until transportation out of the irradiated area is available. This advice assumes your shelter is adequate. That is a whole other long explanation.

The next significant time stamp is two weeks after time zero. The rate at that time will be varied greatly by drainage patterns. The total will be one tenth of one percent of the peak. Rain and runoff will move the fallout, which is just dust, and grit, really, into the path of normal drainage. Sewers, and drainage streams, especially deltas will be “hot”. Good fallout shelter design includes sprinklers to wash off the roof and flush the nearest drains of fallout.

Good managers will send the little old ladies out after the two week measure, to forage for canned goods, and such. A few of the little old men (the oldest) will be sent along to guard, and assist. The two weeks gives you enough time to explain to everyone that half of you are likely to die, and those with less to offer the survivors, in terms of knowledge, skills, and reproductive capacity will have to decide how much they want to use of the resources that will keep the children alive.

Should the bombing have been part of a general war, you will have to maintain the fallout shelter as a base of operations for the working half of the survivors, and the innermost portions as a haven for the youngest. That need will continue for at least another ninety days. Depending on the time of year your crew of old folks will have to find protected stocks of seed, perhaps animals, and certainly whatever long term storage equipment you can scavenge.

The euphemism “civil disorder” was used in my training to describe what could be expected in the aftermath of widespread nuclear bombing. I considered that optimistic.

Tris

Why would you want to? I’m not scared of stuff (spiders, snakes, mice, thunderstorms, whatever) but the idea of people with their skin all falling off while they were still alive which is something I remember hearing happened in Hiroshima scares the bejabbers out of me. I’d far rather have the thing land directly on me and vaporize me. I really don’t think the world that would remain would be worth living in.