Can my business legally refuse to serve Fred Phelps?

From the several things I have read about the Phelpsites, the Westboro Baptist Church is a very small outfit, and most of them are related to Rev. Fred.

I think that there are somewhere between fifty and one hundred people in the church, depending on how frequently you have to attend to qualify as part of the church. Many of them are related to Fred Phelps through blood or marriage, but not all of them.

And from the transcript of oral arguments in Snyder v. Phelps, she’s a pretty competent lawyer, despite holding views that would be funny if they weren’t so appalling.

She seems to be perfectly capable of turning off the crazy, when necessary.

Why, sure, Mr. Phelps., I’d be glad to help you out. We have some fabulous deals on Bridgestones this week, and it even includes* free mounting of the rear* … tires! We’re famous for giving the best rim jobs in the region!

Just bend on over and read to me those little ol’ numbers on that tire. Oh, you do work out, don’t you. Now the other one, that’s right.

“Yes in-deed, I’ve got a great deal on some Firestone 7-2-1 radials here, only slightly used…took 'em off a Ford Pinto, if I remember.”

I’m absolutely convinced that Fred Phelps, like so many other conservatives, is indeed a closet homosexual. Unfortunately, I doubt he’ll ever get busted, because he’s such a dog-faced asshole that no man on this planet wants to fuck him.

When I worked for a bit in state government I received a few trainings on civil rights. You’re entitled to protection of your religious beliefs, and the employer wasn’t allowed to dismiss me just because of the religion to which I adhered.

However, there was no protection for my behaviors.

I don’t think so. He’s a for-real sadist, who enjoys causing suffering and misery.

People don’t understand the purpose of the picketing. It has nothing to do with the people being picketed, and everything to do with isolating people in the church/family/cult. Why do you think they started picketing military funerals instead of gay funerals? Because Phelps wants to isolate his clan from everyone else on the planet, including other hyperfundamentalist wackos. This way they have no friends outside the church, and that means the kids can’t leave the church without leaving behind every human tie.

If you’re a kid born into the church, the pickets demonstrate to you that every human being on the planet hates and despises you. The only ones who care are those already in the church. And this demonstrates to you that your church is right–you’re the only ones who will be saved in a damned world. The purpose of the picketing isn’t to change the world, it’s to make the world hate the church.

It would take extraordinary internal resources for a kid to leave this church, because to leave the church means you’re excommunicated and disowned and considered dead and damned to hellfire.

And the purpose is to feed the ego of Fred Phelps and to provide him with targets for his sadism.

If you’re interested, check out Louis Theroux’s documentary about them: The Most Hated Family in America - Wikipedia

The business owner doesn’t need to offer a reason for denying anyone service - and that would often be for the best - no? Or is that not so?

What if I deny services to anyone who attends a Roman Catholic mass on Sundays? is that targeting religion or behaviour?

Whatever Phelps might be, he isn’t a conservative.

In the same way that a Marxist isn’t a liberal. It’s to a much further extreme.

That is true as far as Marxism goes, but the fact of the matter is that Phelps for years was identified as a Democrat - he even maintains his Democratic party registration today as a thumb in the eye of the party.

He and his family supported Al Gore in several races, and his law firm apparently did some civil-rights work some years ago.

Now, I have said before that nothing of this history should make Democrats or liberals embarrassed - since Phelps is clearly pretty far out of the mainstream on whatever side you can imagine. But he never was any kind of political conservative, from the looks of it.

I personally hope your business is as a process server, and that you swallow your pride and serve him cheerfully every chance you get.

Heh. I used to work as a process server – it’s the only job on the planet where it’s actually more fun to serve assholes. :smiley:

That would be targeting both? In my situation the behavior I was discussing was at work, meaning I could be fired if I tried to hold mass in the hallway where non-Catholics would be exposed to it.

However being someone’s employer you have a much closer and much more legally defined relationship than just being a business owner that someone wants to frequent.

I don’t believe there are any protections whatsoever that would prevent a business owner from kicking you out of his business based on your actions. No matter where your actions occurred, or even if they occurred. The government is loathe to get deep into a business’s choice on how it runs its business and how it handles customers. Government is comfortable getting a bit further into a business’s relationship with its employees, because that is a tighter relationship, one in which the employee is very dependent on the employer. It is also a relationship that if ended, has much more serious consequences than a customer/business relationship.

I’ve not seen any cases in which a business serving the public is prohibited from refusing service with the exception of not being allowed to deny service to people solely because of their membership in a protected class.

Edited to add: As an example of being able to bar people based on actions they allegedly committed elsewhere, a prominent restaurateur kicked O.J. Simpson out of one of his restaurants because of his belief that O.J. murdered his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.

I think I’d say to him “Rev, you might want to voluntarily go somewhere else. I’m suddenly having a really bad day, and I might just forget to tighten your lugnuts, or accidentally nick the brake line, or otherwise make a potentially-fatal mistake. So you might want to go down the road to a tire mechanic who’s having a better day.”