I had some interest in learning to fly helicopters all my life - to the point where I investigated joining the army when I was younger but my uncorrected vision was too poor (corrected I can get to 20/15, but my uncorrected vision was a little outside the acceptable limit). At the time, lasik was relatively new and they wouldn’t accept anyone who has had the surgery. Has that changed?
Even the cheapest helicopters have flight costs in the hundreds of dollars per hour. I’d imagine that just about everyone learns to fly in the military and any civilian helicopter jobs go to ex-military pilots.
So a few questions. At the age of 27, am I too old to join the army to fly choppers? If not, have they changed their policy regarding lasik or uncorrected vision in the last ~8 years?
Or, if that route isn’t available, is there some practical way to train as a civilian that could potentially lead to a job doing it? Or are there more qualified pilots than jobs out there by a large margin?
That’s not really true. Like all flight training, it is very expensive, and civilians have to be either rich and/or very determined. Generally the undetermined get weeded out due to other barriers such as difficulty getting a flying job, and only the very determined are left. There are plenty of civilian helicopter pilots though.
No you are not too old. The cut off used to be 27 with 20/20 uncorrected vision. Now Lasik is approved (you may still have to formally request a waiver) and you can be 33 at the time the board meets. You still have to pass a Class I flight physical and flight aptitude test as well as all the other basic requirements for enlistment. Just don’t let the recruiter talk you into enlisting before you get excepted into flight school. But be aware, there are many candidates that are applying that are already in the military. The qualified ones will get picked before you. If you are serious I would start now, it is not a quick process.
About the job thing. It has been a while since I have worked closely with pilots. When I was in a National Guard Attack Helicopter Battalion I don’t remember any that had jobs as civilian helicopter pilots. We had a few that flew for the State Police and others that flew full time for the Guard (and one Continental pilot who flew 737s). Those that tried to fly on the civilian side left because the pay sucked. Helicopter pilots do not make the kind of money that airline pilots make and the job market is pretty bad. But like I said, my info is out of date.
Helicopter flying is expensive, but it is possible for someone who is not especially wealthy (e.g. someone on a professional salary) to afford to pay for their own helicopter flight training to PPL level. I know several people who have done so.
Did you mean corrected vision? When I looked, corrected requirement was 20/20 but uncorrected was 20/80. Did they change the standards, or do they apply different requirements for older applicants?
So you can be guaranteed to be able to go through flight school pre-enlistment? That’s one of my big concerns with the army - joining intending to do one thing but then getting 4 years of potato peeling instead.
I knew someone years ago who went in and was the highest in his class in what I assume was the flight aptitude test. He said that the highest scorers had their choice of what they wanted to fly… he joined to fly attack choppers and that’s what he did. Does the system still work like that?
Yeah, also a concern - if there are more candidates than position, they’ll take the 18 year olds who seem more likely to be around for longer.
I hadn’t given much thought to the national guard. Do they train pilots themselves, or just accept army pilots? If they train themselves, do you happen to know much about eligibility to their flight school, requirements, how much training they give, etc?
Are you willing to leave the US and go to a European company? Because over here, it works the other way round: you find a job in a company, and they train you, instead of you paying some guy named Mike to train you on your private dime, and then try to find work with some kind of certificate. Though I have no idea if Lufthansa, which trains pilots for planes, also employs chopper pilots. I would think of chopper pilots first as doing the emergency flights for injured people, or mountain rescue, but I would have to look first where they get their pilots.
Cheapest I’ve seen on the civilian side is a Robinson-22 for $150 an hour. That’s just for the chopper, flight instructor (a highly recommend accessory) is extra.
I have a friend who started by flying ultralight airplanes (in fact, he had a lot to do with me getting my pilot’s license) who later moved on to general aviation fixed wing and then to rotorcraft, purely as a civilian. He is now working as a professional helicopter pilot. It cost a LOT of money. In fact, he married a wealthy woman and then started his rotorcraft training. Yes, his wife paid for it. Nice, if you can arrange that.
Anyhow, it is possible to become a chopper pro solely as a civilian pilot. Do you need a fortune? I suppose it depends on how you define “wealthy”. But yes, you need to have significantly above the US median income or some other source of funds.
Depends in part on where you’re willing to work and what you’re willing to do.
I’m hearing stories around the flight school that the Coast Guard is actually the best route for aspiring helicopter pilots. Rumor has it they’re actually dealing with a shortage of applicants. I don’t know the details, but I’ll see if I can learn anything tomorrow.
$150/hour is cheap! I haven’t been flying since 9/11, and an R22 was $175/hour then. I just checked the FBO I used to fly out of, and they list ‘10 hours solo @ $265/hour’ in a Robbo, and $295/hour in a Schweizer. Up here I’ve found a place that rents R22s for $220/hour. The FBO at VNY charges $60/hour for an instructor. The one in Tumwater lists dual instruction for $240/hour in an R22, so that’s only $20/hour for the instructor.
SenorBeef: The FAA requires a minimum of 40 hours of instruction for a license. Most people will need 50 hours or more (60 isn’t that unusual) before they’re ready for a license. You’ll also need ground school, so you’ll have to pay for an authorised video course or an instructor. There’s a fee to take the written test, and then you’ll have an oral exam with your flight test. Gotta pay the FAA examiner for that. Books and materials will cost $200 or $300.
Just to give you an anally-derived number, reckon around $12,000 to $20,000 for a private certificate. FWIW, I got my rotary-wing rating in 1994 and it cost around $8,000.
Yes. Yes it is. It is extraordinarily cheap. Is this where I should point out that perhaps, when it comes to aviation, one does not want to go for the rock-bottom bargain-basement aircraft? “Fixxer-upper” is not a phrase I want used in conjunction with an aircraft I’m about to step into.
Let me give you some of my background so you can judge my accuracy. I was an enlisted aerial observer/scout. Part of my MOS(doesn’t exist any more) was being able to fly. It was counted as nonrated aviator time. The only things we weren’t allowed to do were autorotations and instrument flying. I started to put my packet together for flight school but decided to leave active duty instead. I was in aviation in the National Guard for a while before moving on. So all my experience is a bit old and also stuff I have heard from friends that are still in.
When I was putting my packet together the standard was pass a Class I physicla which meant 20/20 noncorrected. The minute you got to flight school you only had to pass a Class II which meant it could be corrected. I know for a fact (and have a friend that did it) that Lasik is now approved. I have not heard about being able to get in with corrected vision but I read some of the same things online. I would not trust that without going to the source.
Yes you can be guaranteed to go to flight school pre-enlistment. The recruiter would have to help you get your packet together to include physicals and written tests. It is a lot of work and they would rather sign you up as a crew chief. The packet goes in front of a selection board and you get notice of the results. If you get picked up and sign up, you go to basic training to warrant officer candidate school to flight school.
Just like all officer schools, by the end you get a wish list. You get to choose where you want to go and then the army puts you where they need you. Class rank helps.
The selection board has complete control. If they have one slot and two candidates they will probably give it to the high speed soldier rather than the guy off the street. They will probably go for the 20 year old over the 30 year old. But it is up to them and who they choose and how many slots will be available is just speculation.
When I tried to go the National Guard route (I found out I was too old at 27) it was a little different than active duty. In DC they decide how many slots in a particular class will go to the National Guard. They then figure out by need which states get the slots. If a particular state does not have a candidate ready then they will trade them to other states. The candidates have to meet the same standards as in the active duty but they are selected by the state. When I tried it was up to the State Aviation Officer, a full bird Colonel (the bastard wouldn’t give me a waiver even though I already knew how to fly). It is possible that you could come off the street and get a slot but I think it is unlikely. Many off the pilots were ex-active duty guys and all of the slots for new pilots went to enlisted guys already in the guard. All Army pilots, active/guard/reserve, go to the same school for the same length of time , Mother Rucker. Also known as UCLA (Ugliest Corner of Lower Alabama).
I seem to recall that the New Zealand Air Force had similar criteria–it is probably fairly standard across western armed forces. You needed 20/20 uncorrected to get in, but once you were in it wasn’t a problem if your vision deteriorated.
The RNZAF also had a maximum height for fighter jet pilots- 5’6" or something like that. As they were operating A-4K Skyhawks (origingally carrier based planes) there was less room in the cockpit than a larger fighter, and if a taller pilot needed to eject there was- so I was told- a very real danger that they’d be leaving their feet and legs below the knee in the cockpit. :eek:
I hadn’t heard that one. Five-six seems awfully short, though. Someone once told me though, that A-4 drivers could not be broad-shouldered, as the Skyhawk was fairly narrow and broad-shouldered pilots risked having their shoulders broken by the canopy rails. And speaking of breakage, the ejection seats in Phantoms were called Martin-Breakers; apparently because pilots tended to suffer broken legs with them. I assume the M-B seats currently used have overcome that.
I need to find someone to weld a frame consisting of a base with seat rails on it (and wheels) so I can put my A-7E ejection seat (similar to the A-4’s seat) in it and use it as an office chair.
I think it was taller than 5’6", I met some of the Kiwi Red team back in the days when NZ had a strike force and the guys were normal height. As you alluded to, the critical measurement is the length of your thigh.
