Can one separate the Pit from real life?

[devilsknew]

@Finagle

It’s a bit difficult. There’s one poster (name not that important) who on the face of it would be a good friend; his age, occupation, and interests are all very similar to mine. But he was sufficiently a dick to me in one interaction that I harbor a grudge a year later, * even though I can’t even remember what the insult was *. All I have is a distinct impression of Poster X ==> Jerk. So if I met that poster in real life, I’d have a hard time making nice.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4772504#post4772504

Finagle, I try not to hold grudges or automatically assume a person must be a jerk because of their online reflection, but I have to admit your particularly underhanded and personal attack against me in the thread above led to some colorful labeling of your person on my part. Ears burn.
To end this chain of kharmic cause and effect, I say no hard feelings, no judgement. May our trespasses be forgiven, as we forgive.
Hopefully, you’ll reconsider Poster X. We can all stand to clear our hearts and minds occasionally.

[Brutus]

@World Eater

Hell, I’d even buy Brutus a beer.

And I will hold you to it, if I ever get off my butt and go to a Dopefest!

I don’t see the point of holding a grudge against a ‘online’ person. Sure, I dedicate my time to combating the tricksy and false lies of World Eater, Elucidator, and the rest of the Straight Dope Comintern. But if we should meet IRL, I would think that their initial awe at being in my presence would smooth over whatever differences we may have. Regardless, if I meet a Doper (outside of prison), it will most likely be at a Dopefest, which I notice are generally held in places where booze is sold. Hard to hold a grudge after tipping back a few.

[gobear]

@Olentzero

Cichlidiot makes all the points I wanted to, but I want to reinforce them.

gobear, I don’t hold a grudge against you because you’re a Republican, or because you strongly disagree with me on a number of subjects. As a matter of fact, I don’t hold a grudge against you at all. All I am saying is that engaging in ad hominem attacks on the Board, and then telling me to my face that you really do respect me, strikes me as hypocritical in the extreme. If you really do respect me, you’d take the time to formulate arguments against my opinions and assertions without feeling the need to call me names, even if it’s in the Pit. If you don’t respect me enough to do that, don’t tell me you really do respect me when we meet face to face.

Dude, I didn’t call *you * names–I referred to your politics as “loony” because IMO they are. That is not an ad hominem attack. I have reiterated that I am discussing your political views, not you as a person. I repeat, referring to latter-day Marxism as “loony” is not calling you a loony. You are not your politics. And your attempt to equate a political stance, which may be modified or changed, with sexuality was just plain wrong. The one post I did criticize you in was a friendly attempt to get you to tone down the rhetoric. The venom was all on your side, Jeff, not mine.

I even defended you against charges of anti-Semitism and you didn’t even take the time to type a thank you.

[Una_Persson]

@Brutus

But if we should meet IRL, I would think that their initial awe at being in my presence would smooth over whatever differences we may have.

Why am I hearing “No one can believe the superhuman strength of Thunderlips!”?

[Eve]

@MixieArmadillo

Belatedly, may I say, Eve, that you are one of the single classiest human beings I’ve ever had the pleasure of admiring from afar. Thank you for posting here, and know that there are many times that I’d like to respond to something you’ve said, but end up digging my toe into the ground, blushing, and looking away.

Oh, that explains all those toe-holes I’ve been noticing in the ground!

[Olentzero]

@gobear

Dude, I didn’t call you names–I referred to your politics as “loony” because IMO they are.

All right, let’s go over this again. For those playing along at home, here is the relevant [post=4710086]post[/post].

Quote 1:

that does not absolve you and the other loony leftists from your guilt for siphoning votes from the Democrats

Not “The result of your loony politics is that you siphon votes from the Democrats”, but “you and the other loony leftists will siphon votes”.

Quote 2:

I don’t want to hear one bit of blame on anyone else because when it was YOUR turn to help defeat Bush, you screwed up and threw away your vote on Nader.

Not “Your politics are what will ensure Bush’s victory”, but “YOU will ensure Bush’s victory.”

I just don’t see the attack on my politics in here. I see an ad hominem. I will, however, throw myself on the mercy of the judgement of the thread participants and ask their opinion. Ad hominem on the part of gobear, or hypersensitivity on the part of Olentzero?

[Kalhoun]

@Olentzero

All right, let’s go over this again. For those playing along at home, here is the relevant [post=4710086]post[/post].

Quote 1: Not “The result of your loony politics is that you siphon votes from the Democrats”, but “you and the other loony leftists will siphon votes”.

Quote 2:Not “Your politics are what will ensure Bush’s victory”, but “YOU will ensure Bush’s victory.”

I just don’t see the attack on my politics in here. I see an ad hominem. I will, however, throw myself on the mercy of the judgement of the thread participants and ask their opinion. Ad hominem on the part of gobear, or hypersensitivity on the part of Olentzero?

Well, the words themselves denote a personal attack on you; however, an outsider would understand clearly that he was talking about your politics. I think you may have been too close to the situation to see it the way others do.

I might be the Lone Ranger here, but I don’t think so.

[Olentzero]

Based on what, Kalhoun? What, besides my personal involvement in the fray, would make the intent clear to an outsider but not to me? Especially since, as you say, the words denote a personal attack?

[Shodan]

Good heavens, gobear!

I hope in all sincerity that people regard the Pit as I do - a place where amusingly exaggerated flames are the order of the day. This is one of the reasons I have trouble with the “no joke flames in the Pit” rule - it blurs the distinction between amusement and genuine venom. I have certainly flamed posters with whom I was angry, but I hope my flames are taken in the spirit that I take flames in return - as an only semi-serious game. God knows I hope I don’t come across as big an asshole IRL as I do on the SDMB.

But messageboards are not real life. We are interacting, not with real people, but with an assembly of dramatic personae, who are only as real as we choose to present them. That ain’t real life. Thank God - if a tenth of all the sodomizing with blunt objects that is wished in the Pit came true - well, some Dopers would be unhappy. Not necessarily all, but still…

I have a very good friend. He is intelligent, well-spoken, kind, an interesting conversationalist - and a flaming liberal. We can argue all night (and have been known to), but we are still friends, because we each take the friendship more seriously than the disagreement.

It is like martial arts training. Two hours of pounding the living shit out of each other, then a shower and go out for a beer in perfect friendship.

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. - Proverbs 27:17

There are very few Dopers I would not be happy to buy a beer. I would avoid the topics of religion and politics, I grant you, but it would be an interesting exercise to go to a Dopefest and, not knowing what anyone’s screen name is, see what you are all like on the other side of the monitor.

At any rate, to all of you, if I have ever offended to the point that the grudge carries over beyond cyber-space, I apologize, and regret the incident. In defence or excuse, I can only say, it’s the best messageboard on the Internet, but it is still just a messageboard.

Regards,
Shodan

[gobear]

@Olentzero

Based on what, Kalhoun? What, besides my personal involvement in the fray, would make the intent clear to an outsider but not to me? Especially since, as you say, the words denote a personal attack?

Gah, this is pointless. Olentzero, I’m criticizing your politics, not YOU AS A PERSON. Voting for Nader, or not voting at all, is, IMO, bad politics. Saying that voting for Nader is bad is not the same thing as saying that you are bad!

[Kalhoun]

@Olentzero

Based on what, Kalhoun? What, besides my personal involvement in the fray, would make the intent clear to an outsider but not to me? Especially since, as you say, the words denote a personal attack?

Well, maybe to someone who hasn’t been around very long, but I just know Gobear’s style and it struck me as an attack on your politics; not on you. He’s a rather prolific poster. Yes, he has an edge (sometimes a pretty harsh one), but there was no question in my mind he was attacking your politics. I gleaned a general feel from all his posts – not just this one – to determine what he was talking about. Like I said, a newbie might read it differently.

[wring]

in English, it’s difficult to tell the difference between “you” (personally, as in the person standing in front of me, you there w/that screen name) and “You” (y’all members of that particular group there, those folks who do this say that believe the other thing).

I recall getting pretty pissed at folks claiming that ‘you’ lefties were unAmerican, and by virtue of disagreeing w/the Administration, were ‘aiding terrorists’ /‘supporting evil’ sort of thing.

IOW - I understand why in the case in point Olentzero felt personally attached, and why gobear saw it as a more generalized thing.

[Olentzero]

@wring

IOW - I understand why in the case in point Olentzero felt personally attached, and why gobear saw it as a more generalized thing.

Y’know what? I’m gonna go with that. I’ve argued my point, and if people can see it, then I know I’m not totally out of touch. And if people can see that, more than likely people can see how I’d feel saying “I really do respect you” in person would seem to be a gross contradiction.

I’ll try harder to see whether someone really is attacking me or my politics in a post (and I still feel, as cichlidiot does, that Weirddave was trying to poison the well once again). I make no guarantees that I won’t be a prickly sonofabitch if something does get under my skin, but then again slack cuts two ways, unless I greatly miss my guess.

Gobear, no hard feelings, you Republican asskissing hack?

[gobear]

@Olentzero

Gobear, no hard feelings, you Republican asskissing hack?

Absolutely none, you Trotsky-hugging lefty.

[dropzone]

@KellyM

I doubt that I’ll ever do another DopeFest as a result of the vile nastiness that was dumped on me by some of this Board’s less fine denizens.

But…but…but that means you’ll never meet me, since so far we haven’t been to the same Chidopes.

@Brutus

Hard to hold a grudge after tipping back a few.

Yup. And Brutus seems like he could be loads of fun at parties so even if I disagree with two thirds of what he says here AND have been known to get monumentally pissed off at him I think we’d probably get along real well IRL.

As for some of the less memorable people I’ve had my moments with here, I regret (or am very pleased) that I don’t remember our disagreements and fall back on my default belief that everybody here is my friend. Sometimes a lousy memory works in my favor. (Pollyanna )

But this thread has me wondering if I’ve been placed on anybody’s ignore list or have forced anybody to skip a Chidope because I might be there.

[Kalhoun]

@dropzone

But this thread has me wondering if I’ve been placed on anybody’s ignore list or have forced anybody to skip a Chidope because I might be there.

Oooh. I always wonder if people are ignoring me. I’ve never gone to Chidope, but I’m considering the next one. I hope that statement doesn’t clear the room!

[KellyM]

@dropzone

But…but…but that means you’ll never meet me, since so far we haven’t been to the same Chidopes.

Well, I’m kinda hoping to make it to some of the events in the upcoming one, but I’m going to be in the middle of an office relocation that weekend and my time might be a bit compressed. Y’all couldn’t have scheduled it for a worse time.

[World_Eater]

@Eve

Only three current Posters come to mind who have said things to me that cannot be forgiven—so if they ask me something or address me, I just quietly pop out (oooh, that doesn’t sound right).

I know we’ve had a spat or two lately, but I hope I’m not one of them.

Thanks about the cut direct info guys.

[dropzone]

@KellyM

Well, I’m kinda hoping to make it to some of the events in the upcoming one…

There’s one coming up? I should spend more time in MPSIMS, I guess, since nobody ever emails me about them. (sniff)

[World_Eater]

@Brutus

Sure, I dedicate my time to combating the tricksy and false lies of World Eater, Elucidator, and the rest of the Straight Dope Comintern. But if we should meet IRL, I would think that their initial awe at being in my presence would smooth over whatever differences we may have.

Ok, that was funny.

I have some image of us all bowing down to Brutus in the bar droning “we’re not worthy, we’re not worthy”