Wow. Big, fat wow. Isn’t the civilized thing all about fighting with words instead of violence? I hope Leander isn’t suggesting fisticuffs.
Not at all. I’m suggesting that if someone has the “courage” to act like a nasty bitch from behind a computer screen, then they should have the courage to do so IRL. Simple as that.
And clearly gobear does not.
KellyM, I won’t speak for anyone else, but I wasn’t trying to imply the person that I am here is not the person I am IRL. Just that it’s only a very small slice of who I am. I believe it’s very difficult, if not damn near impossible, to convey my entire personality via this medium. There’s more to me than what people have seen here, just as I’m sure there’s more to you. I met my sweetie online, too. Here, in fact. FTR, he’s not NEARLY the stubborn curmudgeon he comes off as here.
I do think that people here who have met and consider each other friends should be able to agree to disagree, which Olentzero and gobear have done.
It’s an interesting question. I’m gonna name names, because this whole business of “There’s three people I hate, but I’m not gonna name names” just makes me all paranoid.
I disagree pretty often and pretty vociferously with Shodan, but I could probably get along with him in-person: our disagreements and insults usually involve calling each other stupid hypocrites, which I don’t really take personally, for some reason. Basically, our snipes at each other are based on the arguments: it’s a way of saying that the other person’s argument is logically flawed. And that’s what I EXPECT the noble opposition to say about my POV, and sometimes it causes me to change my opinion, and more often it causes me to research and think heavily about my opinion. That’s cool.
Recently, spectrum called me a monster for holding my political beliefs and said that I didn’t care about the lives of gay people. That wasn’t just overblown political rhetoric–that was personal and vicious. Absent an apology for the accusation, I would have a real hard time being more than coldly civil to him in person.
Olentzero? You scare me, man, but that may not be your fault. That may be the fault of the last folks I hung out with who used rhetoric similar to yours. Keep in mind that I organized an anarchist conference at the Evergreen State College in 1996; I’m no stranger to radical leftism. Still, if we hung out and didn’t discuss politics, perhaps we could get along. It’s quite possible that I’m unfairly projecting onto you attitudes that you don’t have, based on the similarities in rhetoric between you and the other folks I’m referencing (offline folks whose names I can’t cite). I also recognize that I’ve got a bit of the reformed-drunk attitude going on with you: some of your rhetoric uncomfortably reminds me of my own 22-year-old rhetoric, which I now see as dangerously simplistic, and I may be too harsh on you for this reason.
Daniel
leander, how do you get “I am a coward when it comes to leander” from what gobear has said here? ISTM that gobear is neither a coward nor “[your] boy”, and there is, at the least, a clear disconnect between what he’s saying and what you’re seeing. He’s not saying he’d be afraid to talk to you, he’s saying he wouldn’t waste his time in doing so. Wouldn’t give you the time of day, five minutes, directions to McDonald’s, his two cents on the price of mangoes in Sumatra.
Saying gobear is afraid of in-person dialogue is woefully misinformed. He and I have certainly had a disagreement or two in the past (search the pit if you don’t believe me), but it’s not in his nature to back down, since by and large he hasn’t been doing so for … oh, the past twenty years? I expect discourse at PADope (what with a card-carrying atheist, a firm agnostic and a firm Episcopalian all three in attendance) to be lively, to say nothing of spirited:D
This thread reminds me of a couple of historical bits.
One is a quote arising from a celebrated feud between a couple of newspaper columnists (vintage 1940s). One of them (Westbrook Pegler, I think) confided to his rival that they should forget all the venom that they spewed at each other during the course of their work and pal around after hours. The response he got was “I live by night what I write by day.”
The other dates from the period of the Dreyfus Affair in France, when public opinion was dramatically polarized. A French cartoon strip shows a large family sitting down to dinner, as the father warns “No one shall speak of it.”
In the next panel the table and chairs are overturned, dishes are flying through the air and wild fisticuffs are taking place, over the caption “They spoke of it!”
I suppose Dopefests aren’t like that though. :dubious:
The ones I’ve been to? Not in the slightest. Utterly cordial. In fact, quite a bit of drinking of cordials, too.
Then why does he “waste his time” here, on the board? Why does he continue to argue with me on the net, yet “wouldn’t give [me] the time of day, etc.” if he met me?
If you’re going to argue with someone over the internet, yet wouldn’t confront them IRL, then you are a gutless coward.
I don’t see how this is so difficult for you to understand.
Because it’s not true. Just because you argue with someone doesn’t mean you need to confront them offline.
Of course you don’t need to do so, but if you’re willing to argue online, yet not offline, then what does that say?
I’m glad this is in The Pit. I really am.
If it weren’t, I wouldn’t be able to tell leander to chill the fuck out. And since nobody is willing to say it, I will.
Leander: Chill. The. Fuck. Out.
You’re coming off like an asshole with a grudge. Let it go. Nobody says you have to have the last word. Just let it go gracefully, agree to disagree, understand that you and Gobear aren’t ever going to exchange fruitcakes during the Navidad, and above all
Chill the fuck out.
Oh, by the way, if you’re interested, my e-mail address is listed in my profile. If it will assuage your ego, and not make you think me a “gutless coward”, I will be more than happy to e-mail you a phone number, where I will then proceed to tell you to your face to chill the fuck out.
Because somebody needs to.
It means you’d prefer to argue online than offline.
Frankly, when I go to, e.g., a Dopefest, I’m going for fun, small talk, social activity, and maybe some booze (or a lot of booze, if it’s one of those flings that VBlaise used to throw). I’m not going to get into an argument at a Dopefest because it’s not the right place for it and I really don’t want to argue there.
It says you want to argue online, nothing more. As I said, the fact that one argues online does not mean he has to argue offline. There’s a time and a place for everything, too. The Pit is where tempers can run hot; a DopeFest is where they probably shouldn’t, since people are generally there to have a good time.
Bingo, although I find that, for the posters I sometimes can’t get to answer questions (more because they’re swamped or rarely onlone), a dopefest is a good opportunity to ask the more non-controversial questions. Otherwise, though, a dopefest is supposed to be (I think, anyway) like a live-in version of MPSIMS/IMHO, with a little Pit thrown in for cutting humor and biting cynicism.
There’s a difference between “afraid to confront them” and “won’t acknowledge their presence.” I don’t see how this is so difficult for you to understand. I thought gobear and others addressed the Cut Direct fairly succinctly. Maybe you should re-read it until you come to the conclusion that he’s not afraid of you, he doesn’t think he would enjoy talking to you. If you truly believe gobear is afraid of you, perhaps you should list here some reasons for that fear.
BTW, dan, your butt better be at PADope unless you’ve a damn good reason for being somewhere else:)[sub]Yeah, yeah, bring the rest of your body too…[/sub]
[Not me. I don’t think I’ll ever go to another one.]
C’mon, is it really necessary to act like this?
Take it down a notch.
Look, folks, I’m not just talking about a Dopefest here. gobear said that if he were to “encounter” me offline (anywhere, not just at a party), he wouldn’t “acknowledge my presence”. Yet he is perfectly willing to do so here, online, from behind a computer screen.
iampunha, if one “won’t acknowledge their presence” offline, then what does it say when one does so online?
Nice of leander to go to these lengths to justify his inclusion in gobear’s OP. You gotta hand it to the guy, he’s real dependable like that.
Why don’t you ask the person in question? I have my reasons; I suspect he has his.
I take it, from your departure from your “gobear is just afraid of seeing me in person” tack, that you now see (or have you given up on trying to convince us?) you were mistaken?
I will try. But I certainly won’t lie down simply because a group of gobear’s “friends” (or whatever) want to pile on me. I wouldn’t do it IRL, either. 
To me this seems rather obvious – hiding behind a computer. But it seems that many people want to defend poor gobear simply because they know him. Which isn’t surprising, but I still would expect more from the SD.