Can PedophilesBe "Cured"?

[Priam]

Speculation here about why molestors of male children might be ranked higher than female, with the usual proviso that I Am Not An Expert In The Field yadda yadda…

It could be a cultural factor more than anything else.

Line of reasoning is as follows:

1. A vast majority of known paedophiles are male. (Fact)

2. In the Western world, most especially in the United States, there remains a strong taboo on same-sex behavior of any kind. (Fact)

3. In an illogical way, a hesistant paedophile would seek out a girl rather than a boy so they’re not “gay” as well, even though at such an age there are only a handful of exterior differences between the genders. One with fewer compunctions simply wouldn’t care at all. (Speculation from facts)

I’m not saying these are logical steps, but they make a twisted sort of sense.

[Lamia]

@Loopydude

From what I hear though, when you’re emasculated and hopped-up on serotonin-enhancing and dopamine-antagonizing drugs, not only can’t you have sex, you don’t much want to have sex.

But can they want to want to have sex? Even if someone is incapable of feeling aroused, they could still remember how they used to be able to and be angry about the loss.

[Loopydude]

Yeah, well, there is that. My mom says her biggest frustration is she can’t keep her patients (run o’ the mill depressive types mostly) on their meds; and that’s nearly always because of drug-induced anorgasmia and loss of libido. According to her, it’s her biggest compliance issue. So, yeah, some people who come to lose interest in sex must want that interest back or they’d stay on the Prozac or whatever.

However, when the patient is a child molester, yearning for sexual arrousability is tantamount wishing you wanted to commit a crime. If, of course, there’s an appreciation of the criminal nature of pederasty.

[wonderwench]

Simple answer: No.

Longer answer: We have a problem with how the judicial system works regarding pedophiles. Once a child molester has served his sentence, he should be free to re-enter society. But nobody wants a pedophile to live next door - and now we have Megan’s law which outs released pedophiles. It’s a mess. Either pedophiles should receive life sentences - or they should be allowed to live their lives once they have paid their debt to society.

Given the public reaction to released pedophiles, the public does not believe they will not re-offend. The sentencing is inadequate.

[Ludovic]

This discussion of castration (physical or chemical) reminds me of the oft-quoted statement that rape is not a crime about sex, but about rage or power. So, is the fear that by castrating someone, you might also change them from a child molester to a child murderer? That their crimes would now be crimes of rage?

it may be an oft-quoted statement, but incorrect. Definitely, as the violence of a sexual assault increases, the element of power/rage increases. But the average violence of molestation is very low compared to that of rapes. In many cases I would wager it is a true sex crime: being punished for your pure sexual behavior.

I find the notion that it is preferred and necessary to use violence to recieve sexual favors from children both naive and frightening. Naive, because it underestimated both childhood sexual curiosity and predatory wiliness. Frightening, because it would assume that a one-off sexual offense, which deserves counseling and probation, to be on the par with an abduction/rape which deserves death, (but which I would only give 10 to 25 due to being against the death penalty)

[Little_Cloud]

It seems to me that surgical castration would be the choice of someone who plans to reoffend. It is not all that difficult to obtain andogenic(?) hormones these days. Body builders and athletes do it all the time. Hell, there are even testicular prostheses available to restore cosmetic normalcy.

Taking drugs that block androgens (under supervision of course) would be considerably more reliable for this reason. However, I would not leave my children alone with someone who underwent either surgical or chemical castration so I guess I don’t have much faith that these methods protect society.

[Ranchoth]

Well if it’s of any help, according to the book The Great and Desperate Cures, a prefrontal lobotomy doesn’t really work very well to control a pedophile.

Of course, they didn’t do many operations like that, for those reasons, anyway. Probably not enough to form a valid statistical sample. And maybe a more advanced form of psychosurgery could be effective at eliminating pedophillic impulses (Or, at least, leave the subject unwilling and/or unable to act on them.).

[Ranchoth]

What? What’re you all looking at me like that, for? It’s not that shocking a concept!

[htns]

There’s already a great cure in place for child molesters. It’s called a bullet. The bullet is administered to the patient in a delivery device known as a rifle, which is used to inject the bullet into the patient’s cranium.

This method wouldn’t be used on technical violations of the law - for example, an 18 year old man wouldn’t get it for having sex with a willing 17 year old, but a pervert forcing itself on a terrified and uncomprehending 5 year old would.

Cheap, 100% effective, can be used ethically (but only after guilt has been established in a court of law based on DNA evidence, and only after the defendant’s arguments for innocence have been considered and investigated by an impartial judge).

You say that’s inhumane? Guess what - I find molesting a child to be even more inhumane. It’s 100% effective at stopping recidivism, and that’s all I care about.

[akennett]

Damn you htns, that was my proposed solution. Although, I must say that I think the common bullet injected into the cranium by means of the rifle seems a tad too merciful for these types of creeps. Perhaps we can dig through great and weighty tomes of history for more appropriate forms of ‘cure.’

[kung_fu_lola]

@EJsGirl

This discussion of castration (physical or chemical) reminds me of the oft-quoted statement that rape is not a crime about sex, but about rage or power. So, is the fear that by castrating someone, you might also change them from a child molester to a child murderer? That their crimes would now be crimes of rage?

I don’t think so. Pedophilia is about sex. “True” pedophiles differ from “abusers” in that they are sexually attracted to children; that is their sexual orientation. “Preferential rapists” prefer non-consensual sex to consensual sex. These are paraphilias. Some people argue that you can no more “cure” people with these sexual orientations than you can cure a homosexual.
Abusers and rapists commit crimes out of a need to have power over someone else. This can be dealt with by exploring anger issues and trying to teach empathy.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

@kung fu lola

Abusers and rapists commit crimes out of a need to have power over someone else. This can be dealt with by exploring anger issues and trying to teach empathy.

I don’t disagree with you. Just recognize that when trying to teach empathy, one is doomed to failure if the individual you are trying to teach is a sociopath. And about 20% of incarcerated felons are sociopaths. About the only things sociopaths will respond to are rewards for good behavior and immediate consistant progressive punishment for bad behavior.

[chula]

So, you’re looking for a pedocure? Sorry, blame it on this thread.

[casdave]

A fairly recent news report here on the BBC stated that some study or other had been carried out, and paedophiles were the most likely long term reoffenders and least likely to rehabilitate over the longer term(20 to 50 years).

Convicted criminals tend to give up most if not all of their felonious activity in their later 30’s, by that time they have pretty much had enough.

The same is not true of paedophiles, there have been a few lately convicted who are elderly, over 60 and one who was over 70. These were not related to old offences, these were recent ones.

The problem with treatment programs in prisons is that it is easy for such persons to keep under control, there are no children around in prison, except on visiting days.

In prison there are a plethora of differant courses that a prisoner may be compelled to take part in, Anger Management, Drug Awareness, Alchohol Awareness, Offending Behaviour, Assertiveness and Decisionmaking, Reasoning and Rehabilitation.
There are very many more of these, some are simply repeats of others but with differant names and differant supplying agencies.

What it all boils down to though, is that the prisoners will say what the tutor expects to hear, so the convict will make some play about being a bad case and deliberately position themselves to appear that the course has improved some aspect of their behaviour.

Prisoners are very sophisticated in working together to portray themselves in the best possible light to tutors, psychologists etc.

As a workshop instructor, I get to spend more time in contact with prisoners than anybody else in the prison system, and we have to have a differant relationship with them as a result.

This means I get to hear the prisoners own true opinions of the value of these courses, and I hear their conversations about how they are going to appear to the course tutor at the next session.

Simply put, prisoners do not regard these courses as anything more than a way of passing time, and having something postive to put on their prison behaviour record so they can obtain some advantage, like parole, or transfer to an easier prison, or just a higher priveledge level so they can perhaps get to wear some of their own clother rather than prison issue clothing.

I cannot see why sex offenders would regard the recognised sex offender treatment programs in any other way as the rest of the jail population treat the courses they undergo.

I might add, that inmates often do not know what other prisoners are actually convicted of, and it is our prison policy to keep all inmates of a particular security grouping together.
This can and does mean that , for instance,Category C inmates will include all sorts of things, from druggies, bank robbers, and include sex offenders.

Needless to say, sex offenders do not publicise themselves, and will tell other inmates they are in prison for some other offence.

In such an environment, sex offenders simply are not going to mark themselves out by agreeing to attend sex offender treatment programs.

…not that I place a great deal of real value to any of the personality re-education programs of any type in prison anyway.
Given that the only thing that consistantly causes inmates to give up offending is marital life (along with looking after their children)and maturity, sex offenders are less likely to fit into such groups, (who wants to marry a convicted child sex offender?) and child sex offenders are very often completely rejected by their own families, it comes as no surpirse to me that they keep at their offence

[Ludovic]

A fairly recent news report here on the BBC stated that some study or other had been carried out, and paedophiles were the most likely long term reoffenders and least likely to rehabilitate over the longer term(20 to 50 years).

What an informative and precise cite. i’m convinced!

(Recent studies may contradict older studies, but news may still cite the old studies for shock value. Not of course saying they WERE citing an old cite, but you didnt leave me much to go on)

[Ranchoth]

I wonder if “brainwashing,” really intensive mental conditioning, might work at all for controlling a pedophiles’ behavior.

Of course, the amount of effort you’d have to put into it would probably be unfeasible. Then there’s the problem of the brainwashing wearing off.

And the legal and moral concerns, of course. (Feh!) But that’s quite beside the point.

[casdave]

The study I was referring to is called ‘Managing risk together’ and is the property of Salford University.(Salford Housing and Urban planning unit)

It does show a very wide range of reoffending rates for paedophiles, from around 17% right up to 73%, but since I have not been able to find this publication online I cannot refer you to it directly.

[istara]

Re Castration: I have read that even after physical or chemical castration, some paedophiles, if physically unable to rape a child, will use an object instead.

That said, chemical (even physical) castration can be effective in some cases.

Paedophiles are a massive problem, and my personal feeling is that until a proven, permanent cure can be found, they should be isolated from mainstream society. This does not necessarily mean prison - possibly some form of exile society should be considered.

It is impossible to fully protect children against paedophiles without making children prisoners, and as they are the innocents in this, it is the adults that should have to put up with permanent removal from society. That might be unfair to someone who desperately doesn’t want to reoffend, but it’s more fair for children. And as we know victims are more likely to become offenders themselves than non-victims, that’s another reason for permanently removing them from society.

[Ranchoth]

@istara

Paedophiles are a massive problem, and my personal feeling is that until a proven, permanent cure can be found, they should be isolated from mainstream society. This does not necessarily mean prison - possibly some form of exile society should be considered.

How about a labor colony? You know, ship 'em off to the desert, and make 'em quarry granite until we find a cure.

Of course, I’m still, personally, in favor of the “experimental psychosurgery” approach to finding a cure for pedophilia. With modern science, and a steady supply of test subjects, we might find a surefire way of wiping out pedophilia within a decade or two.

[istara]

@Ranchoth

How about a labor colony? You know, ship 'em off to the desert, and make 'em quarry granite until we find a cure.

Well, no, I think that ultimately people have to be treated in a humane way. And when someone has served their sentence, you can’t go on punishing them. But we also cannot pretend that everything is OK again. We don’t allow seriously convicted criminals to enter the police force (in most countries) even after their sentences are served. Having a criminal record DOES make you different from a non-criminal citizen, despite rehabilitation legislation (UK).

Knowing what we know about reoffending rates, we can’t fairly say, “it’s only humane to let these people back into society” - because it isn’t humane to give them access to children again.

I don’t know how an exile colony could work today. People would have to be allowed decent and proper jobs, the chance of education, entertainment, leisure. Perhaps electronically tagged, they would have to be allowed to go on holiday, visit relatives, and relatives would have to be allowed to visit them. Men and women should be allowed to live there, but in the instance of children being born, they - or the children - would not be allowed to stay. Voluntary residents could leave at any time. If you also took the measures to sterilise - permanently or temporarily - offenders, then childbirth wouldn’t be an issue.

I think there should probably be an international consensus to disallow all passports/visas to serious, serial sex offenders - the last thing you want is someone going to a sex tourism destination and abusing empoverished south east asian children.

In summary: you have to give these people a decent life. But you also have to protect children from them permanently.