Last time was a warning.
We can either heed the warning and try to prevent it in the future. Or we can ignore the warning, and pretend that everything will be okay.
The latter is more comforting, but is the worst we can do if we want to continue this experiment in self governance.
Ah, so a crime only counts if you succeed. OK then.
“Judge, sure I sent some boys over to the witness’ house. Sure they told him if he testified they would kill him and his family. But they didn’t actually do that, so no problem, right?”
Right. You have a heart attack, you can lay off the donuts and start exercising. Or you can say “Hey, it didn’t kill me, so obviously heart attacks aren’t a big deal!”
That’s a pretty convenient position you have there - if attempts to subvert elections fail you get to claim that the Democrats are overreacting to them, and if they succeed it doesn’t matter what the Democrats say, and either way you never have to condemn open attacks on American democracy.
Following your line of reasoning, presumably attempted murder is also no big deal. After all, did anyone die? Didn’t think so.
The premise of the OP is that Republican state election officials will roll over and give the elections to Pubs. We have evidence that at least in Georgia that’s not true. The responses to that cite here are effectively, “That doesn’t count as evidence to the contrary for reasons.”
Not roll over. Do so gladly.
We have evidence that in 2020, they were not prepared to do so. Trump calling up the SoS in a last ditch effort was too little too late.
That just means that they will not wait until after the election and the count is in to try to manipulate election officials.
The responses to that cite is showing what they have been doing, and are planning on doing to prevent such intransigence getting in the way again.
Do you really think that the Republicans have been just sitting on their hands since 2020, that they haven’t learned anything? They certainly have, it’s too bad that some on the left haven’t.
No, I understood what my cite said.
Trump got twelve million more votes in 2020 than he got in 2016. And Biden got sixteen million more votes in 2020 than Clinton did in 2016. So the number of people who voted against Trump grew more than the number of people who voted for him.
Which is what I’ve been saying all along. Trump drives away more voters than he attracts.
I’ve pretty much given up on American democracy and at this point am just hoping my side wins the inevitable civil war. This is because support for the Republican party didn’t completely collapse after Jan. 6; not talking about the terrorist attack but about the overwhelming majority of GOP representatives voting to throw out the election results and declare Trump the winner.
We now have a situation where one major party is overtly anti-democracy and dedicated to using any power it obtains to destroy democratic institutions. And unnervingly, it appears that party is still going to win about half the elections. Democracy can’t survive under such circumstances.
It seems likely the GOP will win control of both Houses of Congress this year, and if that happens there will never be another free election in America until the Republican regime has been violently overthrown.
No; you have evidence that wasn’t true.
You made a very specific claim; I asked for a cite to support it. The cite you provided does not support the claim you made.
What you actually said was:
Which is different from what you are claim that you said all along:
So, do you have any reason to think that all the people that came out to vote for Trump in 2020 will not come out to vote for him or for his endorsed candidate in 2024? If so, please elaborate.
Now, do you have any reason to think that all the people that came out to vote for Biden will turn out in 2024 either for him or for his Democratic successor? I don’t think that’s a given. With Biden’s dropping approval, and his probable 2 years as a lame duck after Democrats fail to turn out to vote in 2022 and hand the legislature to the Republicans, along with the various attempts by Republicans to disenfranchise entire swaths of their constituencies, I think it’s going to be quite the uphill battle.
And we are also talking about the calculous that the Republicans are operating under, you are claiming that they will dump Trump and try to run a more centrist candidate. I don’t think that you’ve actually named any names as to who this candidate would be, so I’m mildly curious as to who you think the Republicans think can win.
But, in any case, I don’t know if I can do this anymore, it’s like arguing with a global warming skeptic who holds up the forecast for snow as though it proves his point.
And another party that seems desperate to turn a blind eye towards it.
Honestly that happens, and I’m in a “can’t beat 'em, join 'em.” situation. If we can’t vote Republicans out of power due to gerrymandering and other factors, then what we can do is to vote in their primaries and try to vote out the crazies and hope to vote in some more moderate candidates.
Great. Expect that the Republican way of dealing with the problem is to do what Trump says.
I dunno, I was pretty impressed with Biden’s speech today.
“The former president of the United States of America has created and spread a web of lies about the 2020 election,”
“He has done so because he values power over principle, because he sees his own interests as more important than his country’s interests. Because his bruised ego matters more to him than our democracy or our constitution.
“He can’t accept he lost, even though that’s what 93 United States senators, his own attorney general, his own vice-president, governors and state officials in every battleground state have said: he lost. That’s what 81 million of you did when you voted for a new way forward.”
Roll Over = Accept Reality. Got it.
Right. And in past elections they’ve won on the basis of opposing the Confederacy.
But those days are long gone.
Now they depend on the wackadoodle, nutter QAnon crazies like you depend on your pants to cover up your ass.
Without the nutter vote, they lose every national election from here to Doomsday. They’ve tarnished their claim on the “moderate, centrist, independent” vote. Demographically, they’re left with nutters and those hard-core “moderates” who don’t distinguish between Joe Biden and a bolshevik, who barely amount to 40% of the voting public.
Dumb polls* bedamned, I’ll eat Mr. Hertzog’s shoe if there turns out to be less dem voters in '22 than '20.
I can’t see how the Crazy Cavalcade will lessen; the hope for more moderate R. candidates is in vain, I feel.
I was too.
ETA: * as well as the line about incumbent leaders not faring well in midterms.
Those past election officials probably won’t be the election officials in 2024. The GOP has targeted them for either replacement by more complacent Trump supporters or red legislatures in battleground states to assume more direct control of the processes.
The next time Donald calls a guy and asks him to find 11,000 votes, it’s much more likely that the guy will be only too happy to do so.
This has been getting harder and harder for them. They’re at the point where the crazies are the core of the party, the majority.
All those election officials that did they right thing are getting death threats and other harassment. To expect the next round will do the right thing is very very dangerous.
To be fair, I’m more talking about individuals who claim that Trump has no chance, and that the Republicans will actually rig the primaries in order to keep him from getting the nomination.
I don’t know how common those people are outside of this thread. I hope not too common.
I mean, I hope that Mr. Hertzog is ready to lose a shoe. Midterm turnout is always significantly less than presidential years. I wouldn’t bet good footwear and gastrointestinal distress that this is the first time that that pattern has not held.
And, it is the Democrats who do not turn out. Republican turnout is decreased a bit from presidential years, but Democrats are always severely lagging. It’s one of the reasons that Democrats in office can’t get much done, they don’t get the support from the fickle voter who sent them there, and gets upset that they don’t get everything they want within the first 100 days.
Well, like I said, by Democrats crossing the aisle and voting in the Republican primaries. It’s not just a hope, it is an action to be taken.
The next time, he won’t have to call.