can somebody explain post-landing taxi procedures?

Factual Questions
1

Been watching some Kennedy Steve videos lately and I feel like I’m missing a bit that’s going on.

Most of these videos are audio of ground control conversations. I know they’re in charge of guiding planes around the airport so they don’t crash into each other or get lost.

What I don’t understand is what is the ‘ramp’? Why is it always full? Why are they often blocked by one airplane?

Basically, my only understanding of ground operations is that once a plane has landed and slowed to a manageable speed, they cruise around the airport using runways and taxiways as directed by ground control. I’m guessing they end up at a gate unload and load passengers/cargo, but they might as well be conducting tours of the airport for all I know.

I’ve been following Captain Joe and Mentour aviation quite a bit, but those are mostly about flying, parts of aircraft, what happens when …, and the like. Roaming the airports isn’t something they’ve covered very well.

2

A picture is worth a thousand words:

3

That’s good. Let me try words.

The ramp is the lanes in a parking lot. You have to travel on the ramp to get to and from the gate (your assigned parking space.) But the ramp gets clogged by planes pushing back from the gate, by the plane that wants to get to Gate 10 having to wait for the plane to pull safely up to Gate 20, by that A380 trying to navigate a path that wasn’t really designed for something that big, etc.

4

Thank you. In a few videos, there’s some talk about what the ramp wants pilots to do. Is there a separate controller for each ramp? Whom do pilots call first once they’ve touched down? In a few calls, they’re calling ground control, but he says they need to talk to the ramp and see what she wants them to do.

By the way, Kennedy Steve works (worked?) at JFK international, if it varies from place to place.

5

Ramps are controlled by whatever airline or operating company runs the terminal. JFK has six terminals (these days) so there will be six different ramp controllers.

(ETA: Actually I guess Terminals 2 and 4 probably share a controller since Delta runs both.)

When a pilot lands at a controlled airport, the Tower will give them instructions to switch to the ground control frequency, and Ground will then direct them to the gate. The plane will usually have been in contact with their dispatchers already and know what gate they’re supposed to go to, but sometimes these plans don’t work out if somebody is late leaving the gate or someone else arrives an hour early due to a strong tailwind. So they will have to talk to the ramp controllers and figure something out as they go.

Kennedy Steve’s battles with the ramp controllers are legendary and second only to his penchant for trolling the tugs.

6

Yeah, land, get off the runway, tell Ground who you are and where you want to go. Ground will tell you how to get there. If there is a Ramp or Apron service then you contact them approaching their area of control for further instruction. Problems occur when the plane on your gate is late to depart and you have to wait, but there’s nowhere to wait that doesn’t hold up other traffic. I’ve had to wait for an hour before for our gate to become available. Luckily all that was in the back was a bunch of mail.

7

As Richard Pearse implies, it’s typically a priority to reserve use of runways for landing and departing aircraft - so taxiing aircraft would be kept clear of runways to the greatest extent possible.

Landing aircraft are expected to cooperate with this scheme, in part by planning things so they can be down to taxi speed at a place where a taxiway joins their runway. They then depart the runway promptly, and contact Ground for taxi instructions.

8

Worked. He retired in 2017.

By the way, if you haven’t seen it, here is a video of Captain Joe interviewing Kennedy Steve.

9

I’m a charter pilot, which means I see many airports, both big and small. I’m always amazed at how, in an industry with so much standardization, there are still many differences in how things are done in different locales. Which makes answering the OP’s question a little nuanced.

Example: At O’Hare, after exiting the runway do NOT stop. You get yelled at there if you come to a stop unnecessarily. Not the case at most other airports.

Another thing is that what’s on the chart may not be in practice when you get there. My habit, when I’m pilot monitoring (meaning, I’m not the one actually flying the plane - I’m working the radios and doing everything else) is to check the chart enroute and write the ground frequencies I’ll likely need on a pad. It’s common at big airports for there to be many frequencies, sometimes divided by quadrant (NE, SW, etc), sometimes by runway.

So yesterday I was flying into a major airport and wrote down the frequencies, we land, and then the controller gives me something completely different. It changes, sometimes based on how busy they are. If it’s slow, a controller may work more than one frequency and they get combined.

I also tend to get thrown when I’m directed to taxi on a runway. It happens, especially when a runway is closed to takeoffs and landings for some reason. Even if you’ve read the NOTAMs carefully it can be hard to tell when you’re going to get this, and my mind is primed to copy letters for taxiways, not numbers. They’ll often give it to you like this: “Hawker 12345, taxi to runway 32 via echo, alpha, north on 1, then right on romeo.”

After landing, even with a good taxi brief, things can happen quickly and you can get unexpected ground routing. So I always have a pen in my hand once we reach taxi speed on the rollout.

10

At what point does Ground Control call Major Tom?

[ducks]

11

[OT]
It may be worth noting that standard radio procedure would be “Major Tom, Ground Control” or “Major Tom, this is Ground Control”. IOW, the called station ID is always first.
[/OT]

12

[quote=“engineer_comp_geek, post:8, topic:828706”]

Worked. He retired in 2017.

By the way, if you haven’t seen it, here is a video of Captain Joe interviewing Kennedy Steve.

[/QUOTE]

Kennedy Steve was awesome. Guy never lost his cool. But what it says about the our digital culture that an air traffic controller can attract tens of thousands of people willing to spend hours simply listening to him do his job, and thereby become a minor celebrity, I’m not sure. Something interesting, though.

13

Thanks for the info and insights. I love hearing about stuff like this from people that actually do it on a daily basis.

Yes, I have seen the Captain Joe/Kennedy Steve crossover. It was fun.

I’ve heard Steve directing planes to cross runways (e.g. “bravo foxtrot lima, cross 22R, hold at golf”).

I’m also kind of impressed with how well the pilots handle what sounds like chaos on the ground.

14

I am too and I am a perpetual flight student. I know how to fly planes just fine but the radio work is difficult and I have studied it for years. I would have been done a long time ago if I lived in some sleepy town in the Midwest but all of my training is in Boston and Dallas with lots of crazy airspace. The controllers talk almost like auctioneers with no warning and you better be ready to understand every little detail with no notice.

The controllers have some weird mental skills that allows them to see the whole thing like a very difficult video game that you can’t ever fail at but I am convinced that only certain people can do it no matter the training. It is a talent that most people don’t have.

That is the reason that I am in no hurry to finish. I want a CFI with me to listen for the calls in case I miss them and I don’t bust Boston Logan’s or DWF/Love Field’s airspace because that can be big trouble. I was once flying into a smaller airport north of Boston on a very nice day for landing practice and I was sequenced 19th in line and to fly miles out to join the back of it. I had plenty of trouble figuring out where 19th place was but the controller was keeping track of all of us simultaneously with more joining all the time.

15

I disagree - I think it’s mostly repetition.

While there is certainly a basic intelligence one must possess to perform any complex skill, given that, I think anyone can achieve proficiency. I realize you’re referring to the controllers here, but I’ll address the pilot side of radio communications because it’s what I know. When I was a flight instructor I assured all of my students that when I was done with them they’d have no trouble going to any airport in the country. I did two things to achieve this:

  1. I trained them in the golden rule of radio, which is that 90% is “Who you are, where you are, what you intend (or would like) to do”, preceded by whom you are addressing. “Boston approach, Cherokee 123 is 10 miles west, inbound to land with Bravo.” We practiced in the hangar and our desktop sim.

  2. I took them places and let them do it. I demonstrated, then they took over the radio. Repeat as needed.

Also remember that there’s a finite number of things ATC can tell you to do. With a little anticipation one can usually be prepared for what they’re going to say. And again, repetition is key. A hobbyist pilot who flies less than 100 hours a year will understandably tense up when flying into a major airport. Those of us who do it every day simply have more repetitions and we’re used to it. It’s where we live.

16

Good heavens, where was that?

17

Am I a bad person for snickering when I’m routed onto taxiways Foxtrot, Alpha, Golf?

18

Lawrence on a nice summer day mid-day. The controller was good but not in the mood for chit-chat or mistakes. She definitely earning her money that day.

The last lessons I took were in Addison, TX where my new instructor cheerfully informed me that it was the busiest single runway airport in the world with lots of restricted airspace all around. I can believe it but Lawrence was way busier at least the day I described.

I think I can do it but I don’t fly 100 or even 50 hours a year. Flying into busy places like that is like telling a brand new driver to drive into downtown Boston during rush hour.

19

Wow, I flew out of LWM for years and never had to deal with more than 5 other airplanes in the pattern at once. Must have been some special event to get to 19.

20

I once landed at night at a large international airport in a little four seat Mooney, and the ground controller said, ‘ever been here before?’ I said no, and he proceeded to give me turn by turn directions right to where I needed to go. That was much appreciated, because a large airport at night can be a maze of colored lights, and when you are close to the ground instead of way up in the cockpit of a heavy, you can’t really see the lighting patterns sometimes. I was pretty intimidated until that helpful controller took over.