…during my short career as a police officer, but I didn’t think of it then.
Say a cop arrests a guy. let’s say the suspect puts up a bit of a fight while the officer is trying to cuff him. While exerting himself to subdue the perp., say the cop has a heart attack. Could the perp. be charged with that? Has this kind of case ever come up?
First, most cops are in better shape than that. The ones that aren’t probably wouldn’t try to make an arrest on their own. But, that quibble aside, most states recognize what is usually called “felony murder”. The name is a little misleading because in some states the crime in question can be less than a felony.
The basic idea is that a person who commits a sufficiently severe crime is guilty of murder if anyone dies during the commission of the crime. As I noted above, the severity of the crimes that gives rise to a charge of felony murder will differ from state to state.
Last year, for example, two teenagers broke into a McDonalds after hours, stole some cash, and set the place on fire to hide the evidence. Two firefighters died putting out the fire due to an unforeseen roof collapse. The kids were tried for murder.
I think the guy in your hypothetical could be charged with murder.
depends very much on the law of the jurisdiction where it happens.
For instance, in Canada I would doubt very much that a murder charge would lie. Under our Charter of Rights, there must be a specific mental element for the charge of murder, namely the intention to kill, or recklessess about the foreseeable risk to life. Hard to see that your hypothetical of the heart attack would meet that requirement.
YMMV
Now suppose his wife, who is driving a school bus, hears the news on the radio and has a heart attack herself and a school busload of kids die. Is he responsible for that too? What if some of the parents of the kids also have heart attacks?
I cannot see how he could be charged with murder. The consequence would have to be foreseeable and reasonably expected. I think he can be charged with resisting arrest. That’s it.
It varies from state to state. Here in Colorado we have
a “felony murder” law, that allows someone to be held
responsible for bad things that happen during the comission
of a felony.
Recently there’s been a some protest over Lisl Auman, a
woman who has been sentenced to some absurdly long prison
sentence (life, I think) for the murder of a police officer
by another man. She was actually cuffed and in locked in the
back of a police car at the time the shots were fired. But
because she was an “accessory” to the felony, she got the rap.
Terrible miscarriage of justice. See http://www.lisl.com.
-Ben
pkbites, do you think they guy would stay around? If so, he would probably call 911, if not, they would probably never find him.
Any chance of a moderator actually changing the title of this thread to reflect what the question actually is?
Man, I do NOT know where you’re from but come and walk around in Chicago sometime. I am CONSISTENTLY amazed at how out of shape the cops are here. With the exception of the “bike” cops, I feel I could outrun just about all of them on crutches…of course, they’d just shoot me in the back…which is the style of the time.
jarbaby
Sorry Synergist, but you’re wrong on this account. I was a full time patrolman for 4 years and I can tell you a lot of coppers, especially those over 35, are not in as great of shape as they should be, or even as they appear to be. The diets of most officers is terrible! As for making the arrest on their own, an officer comes upon a crime being commited he can’t stand around, he’s got to act.
I know the felony murder charge should cover a case like this, I just wanted to know if it’s ever been used in a case of a cop keeling over during a pinch.
In Scotland the ‘perp’ would be charged with culpable homicide, which is a step down from murder.
Legally he has caused the cop’s death.
So technically, if I’m pulled over for speeding, and the cop has a heart attack walking up to my car, or more likely, is hit by another car, I’m responsible for his death?
Think about that…
No, you’re not. It happened in my city a couple months ago. Cop walked up to car, got picked off by a semi. The semi driver got charged, but the poor pulled over driver was let off with just his guilt.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jarbabyj *
**
Holy shit, Jarbabyj, if we’ve told you once we’ve told you a THOUSAND times, stop wearing those long-sleeved black t-shirts with the large concentric circles on the back. 
Cartooniverse
In an almost identical case, an inmate was resisting being restrained by a guard. The guard had a fatal heart attack. The inmate was charged with felony homicide.
Having just finished serving on a jury for a felony murder case, let me add my observations. The requirements for felony murder (In Michigan, at least) are:
The defendant caused the death of the victim, or was an accomplice of the person that caused the death.
The defendant was committing or trying to commit some kind of robbery or larceny (Otherwise, it would be regular murder or manslaughter)
The defendant had one of three states of mind:
a) He was trying to kill the victim
b) He was trying to seriously wound the victim
c) He created a situation where you could reasonably expect death or serious injury to occur (eg, an armed robbery)
There were no extenuating circumstances to the killing that would make it 2nd degree murder.
In most of the hypothetical cases cited in this thread, a jury would be hard pressed to find that the elements of a felony murder existed.
Diceman, I think that was just the felony laws in your specific case. There are other laws that usually mean that any subsequent crime that happens in the course of a felony is considered murder.
As an example, I remember an incident where the LA police were chasing a bank robber. They were using police helicopters, and when the robber went into Orange County, they handed off helicopter chase to the OC police. Except the pilots were so intent on the chase that they crashed right into each other. One of the pilots was killed. The guy got caught, and since he committed a felony (bank robbery, high speed chase, etc) he was charged with murder 2 for the police pilot who was killed. I personally thought that was kinda unfair.