Can the 'right' kind of person be happy on minimum wage?

This is not solely a thread looking for advice, so while it will be easiest to explain what I’m talking about if I use myself for an example, what I’m asking is aimed much more towards generally speaking than for me personally. It will take a bit of explaining and even then I expect a little of this will be slightly vague, so I appreciate patience.

I am sure that very few people will ever live as good as they truly want to on minimum wage, but my question is that if you’re the ‘right’ sort of person, if what you genuinely desire to have in your life for the foreseeable future is nothing very grand or elaborate, but you yourself would be totally content with it, is living off a full-time job for minimum wage as bad as you might be tempted to assume it is before you’ve experienced it? For the discussion here, minimum wage where I live is $10.25/hour (Ontario, Canada).

I’m 20 years old, I’ve always been privately happy to think that so many of the costly things that hamper people and cripple them financially when they move out on their own in their early or mid-20s are things that I don’t want anyway: I have no need for a cell phone, for instance, or TV at all, and if it came down to it I could definitely live without the internet for long periods of time. I genuinely prefer small, cramped apartments to large ones and would be totally thrilled to essentially live in an apartment with the dimensions of a cardboard box. I find that sort of thing cozy, not claustrophobic. I don’t like going out a lot and could easily not go out at all, I’ve always been perfectly happy to eat cheap food, take the bus, etc.

The point is, no matter who I’ve asked in real life, I’ve always come out of the conversation with scarcely more than one horror story after another, of how terrible it is to live on minimum wage. I’m not disputing this for a second: I’m sure it is very trying and not at all easy to live on minimum wage for the vast majority of people, but consider someone like this:

[ul]
[li]25 years old, working for $10.25/hour, 40 hours per week.[/li][li]Has not a dime in debt, no loans to repay, etc. [/li][li]Will never have kids.[/li][li]No cell phone, internet or TV bills.[/li][li]Living in a cheap apartment.[/li][li]Purchased all major appliances while living at home earlier in life, rent-free.[/li][li]No engagements or social contracts eating up income.[/li][li]Rides a bike or takes the bus everywhere.[/li][li]Purchased plenty of necessities before moving out alone.[/li][li]Happy to live without ‘luxuries’ (heating, AC, etc.)[/li][li]Saved $5,000-10,000 before moving out.[/li][/ul]
etc.

My question is, if you’re living what we might call a lo-fi lifestyle, you’re generally cautious and smart with your money, is living off of minimum wage all that bad if you’re only responsible for yourself? The above is not my ‘plan’ to the letter, but a general idea of the sort of thing I’m working towards and expect to have five or six years down the road. I know there are plenty of ways you can burn through your money very fast. I know that there are plenty of taxes on what you earn and that you are unlikely to ever feel particularly rich living in such a way, but the notion I cannot shake no matter who I talk to about my own thoughts of what I have posted above is this: everyone I meet seems to need much more than me to be satisfied, and I don’t know if I’m totally wrong in thinking the above, or something close to it, is something I can be happy with, or if everyone I’ve discussed this with is just applying their own standards of satisfaction to what I’ve said and it’s them that are the ones that couldn’t make something like this work. I have no intentions of living in such a way for the rest of my life, but as what I outlined above is a vast improvement on the way I’m living at the moment, I can’t quite make out if it’s the sort of death sentence so many seem to treat it as. None of this is to say I don’t aspire to more than this, but it would be a starting point I’d be overjoyed to begin my ‘real’ life (life away from home) at.

Any input is thoroughly appreciated. There are of course plenty of other variables to consider but I don’t want to make a first post so long no one will read it. Happy to elaborate on any points. As I said, this is not some sly attempt for personal advice, but more a general question I’ve wondered for a while and as it very closely relates to my own thoughts on the subject, it’s easier for everyone involved to use myself as the example. If I’m talking out of my ass and I’m completely ignorant about something here, or indeed everything, there’s no need to sugarcoat anything, so don’t be shy. A want of real world experience and the knowledge that the people on here are generally on the ball with this kind of thing means it can’t hurt to discuss it. Any comments? Stories to relate? Experiences you want to share?

Cheers,

Andrew

(I hope this is in the right section, I seem to fuck up and post in the wrong board every time I make a thread. If this is in the wrong place, my apologies).

You’ll need heating come winter. Your clothes will need replacing at some point. You will likely need glasses later. Et cetera.

The key is the difference between your net income and your expenditure. If you can maintain a positive balance, then you’re fine.

The main problem with living on a low wage for a long time is that the sort of jobs which are low-wage jobs tend not to get much respect, and you will eventually get tired of putting up with the bullshit. So if it was your plan for forever, I would say it was highly unlikely you’d be as contented with it at 45 as at 25. Unless what you were doing was your passion, which just happened not to pay very highly, in which case, have at it.

As far as a plan for a 25-year-old for a few years … well, our 5-person family uses up about 60k a year, and I’m quite happy with our standard of living. Canadian dollar and AUD are about at parity at the moment, I believe, though I have no idea about your local cost of living. 20k a year for just you doesn’t sound unreasonable.

Are these people lamenting minimum wage local to you, or on the Internet? Because, of course, living costs vary widely, and in particular if you’ve been talking to Americans there’s healthcare to consider, which you don’t need to worry about.

I lived on less than minimum wage when I was in my early 20s (graduate student stipend). I had no savings and lived in a costly part of the US (northern NJ).

It can be done. You can live. But you’re not going to be able to afford decent healthcare or dentistry. And you’ll need to find a place where utilities are paid for in the rent, because heating costs are no joke. And if bad winter isn’t gonna get you, the summer heat will (so I’d say the same if you lived in Florida).

I was fortunate that I found a low-income highrise (you couldn’t make more than a certain amount of money to live there) where utilities were included in the rent ($450). There were laundry facilities in the basement, and the building was located very close to public transit and a supermarket. All of these things are GOOD THINGS.

The thing about not having a car is that you’re going to be doing a lot of huffing it on foot and standing on cold platforms and bus stops. Which means you need clothes that last. You’d be surprised at how long a coat can wear down if it’s the only coat you have. Or if you’re goofy like me, how easily it is to misplace gloves, scarves, and hats.

I would often ride my bike around when I didn’t want to pay transit fare. I pulled it off as a carefree 21-year-old, but now? I’d be scared shitless to drive in NJ streets on a bike. Age kinda makes you more cautious. And remember, you probably will not be able to afford insurance. One little accident could be catastrophic. A broken leg means you would have to depend on the bus to take you to work. Which means if you miss the bus a couple of times because you’re late coming out of the door, you might be out of a job. Minimum wage jobs are often heartless that way.

But yeah, with careful planning, it can be done. I wouldn’t want to go back to those lean times because it was a little too “raw-living” for me (low-income apartments are crappy…I’ve got a thing about roaches after rooming with them for five years). But it’s not impossible. You might even be able to save a little if you live frugally enough.

In grad school in the mid-90s I had a $9000 stipend I lived on. No family, no debt, no cable, pre-internet in the home and pre-cell phones. My rent was $350 including untilities for a nice studio walking distance to work, so no car.

I still was able to go to eat (cheap) and go out for fun (anything cheap), and I was happy in school. I wouldn’t want to sustain such a lifestyle beyond the 4-5 years I did it. It gets draining after awhile and I wanted better things in my life. But it was fine for then.

I really really don’t want to sound condescending, but I think that at the age of 20, your vision of how you want to live your life may not equal the reality once you’re actually living it. So what you thought you’d want at 25 when you were 20 might be completely different to what you actually find yourself wanting once you reach 25.

Sure. I still know a few people in their 40s who live like that - even their 50s. It isn’t my preferred lifestyle, but they are happy.

Some people managed to live happy lives one or two or five hundred years ago, when the things the OP talks about not having weren’t even available.

Some us couldn’t stay at home for years & years, saving money & buying appliances & other “necessities.” (But most rentals include major appliances, anyway.) Those who had that cushy familial base probably still depend on Mom & Dad to bail them out if things get tough. Or if they start a family.

Heating is not a luxury in most of the country. Even Texas–where it’s hard to live decently without AC, either. Although renters just need to pay for utilities; again, heaters & AC are usually provided.

The “right” kind of person can be happy living in a monastery cell. Most of us are not that right.

As noted, the physical items you currently own will occasionally need to be repaired, and, at some point, replaced.

You’re 20, so you’ve likely got 50+ years left to live. Maybe you don’t want or need nice/expensive things in your daily life, but in all that time, do you believe you’ll never want to travel, to see the world? Go out to a nice dinner with friends? See a movie or a play?

Minimum-wage jobs are often physical in nature, which means the day will come when you’re not able to do the work. Having worked for minimum wage all your life, you won’t have much of a nest egg saved up to carry you through a dry spell like that, or through retirement.

there’s nothing surprising about being happy with a frugal lifestyle. the key here though, is choice. with youth and hardwork, it is much easier to make sure that it remains as something you have chosen for yourself. there is a huge difference between living frugally because you chose to instead of being forced to because of choices you made in your youth.

You never know what the future will bring. Yes, you can live a frugal lifestyle and be quite content with it. A lot of us, my family included, do that no matter how much money we earn. The difference between being frugal on a minimum wage paycheck and being frugal on a higher salary is that when you are only earning the minimum wage you don’t really have the ability to have a drastic change in your life. What would happen tomorrow if you woke up and found yourself disabled in some way? What would happen if tomorrow you accidentally knocked up your girlfriend? What would happen tomorrow if you lost your job? It only takes one horrible thing happening outside of your control to have a comfortably frugal lifestyle turn into trying to decide whether or not you should eat this week or pay your electric bill.
For us it ended up being a damn good thing we had so much extra money set aside because we’ve been dealing with my husband’s job loss for a while and, because apparently fate has a sick and twisted sense of humor, I got pregnant not too long after he became unemployed. Because we set aside so much when life was good and didn’t blow through those savings now that our pendulum is swinging the other way we are still just fine. We could functionally handle probably another year and a half like this with very little problem. Had we been earning significantly less over the previous years and not saved up for emergencies we would have been faced with some horrible choices and very few options. Problems always suck but they will suck significantly worse if you don’t have a financial cushion to fall back on.

I did it for 5 years. My wage was lower than your example but I worked extra so as to bring in ~$25k/year. There was plenty of extra money for maxing IRA contributions, buying health insurance independent of my employment, travel, and entertainment. I was happy, but the key there was that I knew that it was a temporary situation and that I would have more in a few years. If I had gotten tired of sacrificing current income for future income, I could have easily tripled my income.

So to answer your questions, no, it’s not “all that bad.” You say you aren’t planning to live like that forever. What’s your exit plan?
You might want to add “have a roommate” on your list, as that can cut down on rent, utilities, and some entertainment (e.g. internet). I prefer to live alone, but money would have been much tighter without my roommates.

Sure, you can live on minimum wage and be happy! I did it as a single grad student for 5 years, and had an awesome time – in many ways those were some of the happiest days of my life. I probably could have done it for quite a bit longer, as well. My husband (before we were married) did it for seven years and loved it as well.

The real thing that changed my thoughts on this was having a kid. Suddenly I wanted to be financially secure, be able to afford nice things for the kid (music lessons, college, etc.)… If you’re not planning on having a family at all, it’s much easier to stay in that lifestyle. I have a friend who is still single, and although he does make more money now he totally lives like a grad student and spends basically no money.

I know a few people who, having given their youth to working career jobs, are now living the frugal lifestyle of the “around minimum wager” in their 40s and 50s. Kids are grown (or they never had any) and they have said “wait, you know - I was actually happy when I poured coffee for a living back in college.” In some cases, a layoff forced them to simplify, but they haven’t ended up disappointed with the change in circumstances.

But yes, CHOICE is critical. The wrong type of person is always going to be miserable in these circumstances.

And kids change things for those of us who aspire to raising kids “middle class.” Its one thing to choose for yourself a lifestyle that involves Goodwill racks and lots of beans and rice - most of us wouldn’t choose that for our kids.

You cannot, literally cannot, survive without heating in Ontario, at least a wood stove (but you need wood). You are talking about $20,000 and change per year. Right now you don’t need much and medical care is, thankfully, covered. But dental care? And the glasses you will eventually need. When you get to my age, you can pay well over $1000 a year for meds, even with the provincial pharmacy insurance (add another $500 for the premiums).

Also a lot depends on where you live. You talk about taking buses, so you have to be thinking of an urban center. Toronto? Can you find even a tiny apartment for $5000 a year? You will need some new clothes eventually. Furniture wears out eventually. Sure I lived on $1800, tax exempt, a year for some years in the late 1950s and early 1960s, but I didn’t plan on doing that for the rest of my life.

I was thinking about this thread all day.

The thing about those of us who lived on minimum wage in grad school is that, well, we were being paid to be in school. We weren’t standing on our feet all day flipping burgers, having orders yelled at us, and having to pull double shifts. I had an office and one of those camping reclining chairs, where I would curl up and fall asleep between experiments. Most times I was sitting around the lab, checking email and goofing off. I’d come into school around 10:00 am and leave around 4:30 pm. I’d go home to study and do homework, yes, but I wasn’t physically exhausted. I didn’t have that depressed feeling of being a nobody because I knew I was going to bigger things one day.

Most people who work a minimum wage job can’t say the same. It is hard doing minimum wage work. In all the minimum wage jobs I’ve ever had, I have suffered from some type of stupid injury. Skinned thigh from falling off a moving golf cart (don’t ask). Cat scratches and falls on urine-slick floors. Nose bleeds and mosquito bites. Unrelenting, oppressive, hellish heat. I would have been really miserable if I had to endure all of that and then ride a bus home, where I could only expect a dinner of ramen noodles and a hot dog. In a sweltering, roach-infested apartment where you can hear the neighbors fighting during the day. Or having sex at night.

Unless you live in a cosmopolitan place (like NYC), where cultural activities are free or cheap, you wlll most likely be bored. While in grad school, I was fortunate that I was just a dollar train ride away from NYC. If I had lived further away, I would have been bored out of my mind because I wouldn’t have been able to afford the train fare into the city. All I would have had were library books and public television.

So while it’s not impossible to live on minimum wage, it sucks if you want to have a comfortable life where you aren’t constantly feeling downtrodden and intellectually unstimulated. There’s more to life than having just the basics. There are intangibles that come with having some financial wiggle room.

You bet. I’d be happy on minimum wage 20 hours/week – I get that doing my own little business approximately, but, admittedly, I’m not that happy, and want something more steady than freelancing. If someone wishes to live the kind of life they want, they can be perfectly happy doing without FancyFeast for humans and kids and a new car.

Authors. Musicians. Elite backpackers. These people, to a man or to a woman have all given up a lot of life’s “good things” for the sake of doing things they love. If everyone isn’t William Gaddis, it doesn’t mean that lots of people aren’t trying.

However, all the above exemplars have spent thousands of dollars learning their “hobbies” and spent untold thousands of hours practicing their crafts – it’s a different view of consumption, is all.

I have never made much more than minimum wage and I was always happy.

Now I’d be happy if I could FIND a job.

I agree with you about the heating - you can save money by keeping the thermostat low, but there’s no way you can go without entirely. I spend more than I like to think about on heating oil. Ideally heat is included in your rent, but in my experience the existence of utility-included apartments really varies from city to city.

As for the medical - when I lived on minimum wage (admittedly in BC, not Ontario), my income was low enough to qualify for premium assistance and I didn’t have to pay anything in terms of health insurance premiums. I do realize though that I was lucky to be young and reasonably healthy and I didn’t need a whole lot of medication. But I did still go to the dentist for cleanings and I wore contacts - both of those things were budgeted for well ahead of time but were still within my means. I did worry about having an emergency like needing a root canal or something.

I honestly didn’t mind living on minimum wage - it was mostly a matter of getting used to living a certain lifestyle and not thinking too much about all the things you can’t have. No car, no cable, very little going out, try to find fun things to do that don’t cost much. Sometimes I miss it because in many ways it was less stressful than other jobs or school.

I’m currently living on a grad stipend, which is similar in a way, but as **monstro **says, isn’t quite the same. I’m not sure that I could do it forever. I’ve gotten to a point in my life where a lot of my friends are doing things like buying houses and having kids, and it’s increasingly frustrating to watch even though I realize that I’ve decided to put school ahead of those things. Having some friends who are in the same situation as you helps quite a bit. But for me it’s not, and never was, a lifestyle I thought I’d keep up forever. I don’t think I’d be happy if I thought this was the most I’d ever have. But I’m sure some people can be happy with that.