Can we cut the French a little slack now?

France Commemorates ‘The Other D-Day’

See? They’re pretty decent. They just disagree with our foreign policy.

What?

With the French being timely, wise, judicious and accurate?

While the US was lead by an orchestra of the devious; blackguards, schemers and frauds? And now everybody knows it.

I can’t imagine a sequence of events less likely to lead to a sympathetic view of the French.

The suggestion is downright unAmerican.

No, these facts cannot be atoned for by past history from 50 years ago.

But the French are so much fun to kick around.

And while I admit I don’t have facts, I remember one of my school teachers (8th grade I think) saying something about how France just pretty much told us to stick it when it came to paying their war debt. Anyone have info?

Okay, I will drop the whole “freedom fries” and any other renamed food thing, and will promise to call French people “Cheese eating surrender monkeys” only on Wednesdays & Saturdays. That okay? :wink:

I also heard that France has a long tradition of having many highly intelligent, strong and courageous men among its population…and that almost all of them died in WWI and WWII, thus explaining France’s behavior since.

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Isn’t that a bit tactless considering the quotes in the OP? On the other hand maybe I am being over sensitive.

While I was in New Orleans, I went and got me some Freedom fries, a Freedom bread pizza, and some Freedom vanilla ice cream. Then I went down to the Freedom Quarter, and wound up talking to this Freedom-Canadian girl. Before long, we wound up Freedom-kissing back at her hotel. I didn’t have any protection, so I excused myself, ran to the adult bookstore down the street, and bought a condom with a Freedom tickler.

Enough with this France-bashing shit. The German government didn’t exactly applaud our decision to invade Iraq; but we didn’t start renaming our coconut-chocolate cakes. Nobody boycotted Volkswagen. Nobody decided to pile up bottles of Jaegermeister, bratwurst, lederhosen, and scheisse videos and then run over 'em with a steamroller.

We fought two world wars against Germany. Hell, they were fighting alongside the Redcoats in the American Revolution. France gave us troops during the Revolution, a hell of a land deal, and a certain famous statue standing on an island in New York Harbor. Which country is more deserving of our ire?

he he he

That was good. :smiley:

I was never so embarrased by and for my countrymen then during the whole French bashing phase.

I’ve never understood why disagreements with the French always seem to slip so quickly into tired, bigoted and sophmoric fits of name calling.

Also, as an American, can we please stop trying to coast on the efforts of the WWII generation and insisting that Europe give us a free pass for everything we ever want to do again?

D-day was a long time ago and unless you were around then to land at Normandy, it doesn’t have a lot to do with our current state of affairs. I find it odd that Europe, which was ravaged by WWII has moved on, while we seem so obsessed by it. Yes we fought the good fight, yay for us, thanks to those who served, now lets get to work.

No, I certainly don’t think you’re being overly sensitive. You’ve shown yourself capable of compassion to me in the past and I still regard you very kindly for it. But I was speaking of France’s government and the overall anti-anything American stance it has displayed ever since WWII. To hold a ceremony honoring those who fought to liberate them is a good thing. But it doesn’t really speak to the overall attitude France has displayed toward us over the last 55 or so years. Had they paid their war debt and supported us through the years I would feel differently. (Remember, or perhaps you are too young, but during Gulf War I France wouldn’t even let us fly over its air space to attack Iraq. This despite the fact that taking the long way around put our pilots at greater danger and caused our military needless time and expense.)

Regarding Germany, we didn’t liberate it as we did France; we defeated it! There’s a difference in expectation as a result. And it appears to me, though I could be wrong, that there is a much more close societal and commercial relationship between France and the U.S. than between Germany and the U.S. And Germany didn’t run around the world trying to persuade other countries not to join up with us in the battle against Iraq, as France did. In other words, France went out of its way to cause us grief in our efforts to build a coalition, whereas Germany merely abstained.

I have not heard a good reason yet for why the French should have bent to our will instead of using their own good judgment about what was appropriate for their country.

Saying that they are “courageous” if they do this or “cowardly” if they do that is ignorant. Like all nations, they are a mixture of people. Some may be afraid of one thing and some of another. Some may be afraid at one time and courageous at another. And sometimes the most unlikely people will surprise themselves with their own courage.

France asked us to wait two months before invading Iraq. They wanted the inspectors to have a chance to finish their jobs. That was a judgment call on their part which appears to have been a good one. But that has nothing to do with what the French people are like as individuals.

I was in France last spring. I was treated with warmth and kindness. The French people that I met seemed not to have a problem understanding that my identity is separate from decisions that my government makes. We should do the same.

Indeed. France should be honored to be the butt of our jokes; It’s not like we are making fun, on a daily basis, of Asscrackistan. Regardless, I bet that if you look hard enough, you’ll find one or two Frenchman who hold ‘unreasonable’ of the US. Just one or two, though.

Shrug It’s not like we are getting into a shooting war anytime soon. May as well have a bit of fun.

Sorry I didn’t mean your opinion was wrong, just that in a thread about how they were honouring American dead, it was a wee bit tactless.

( and thank you for your kind words :slight_smile: )

That’s assinine. Why did France have the obligation to shut up if they disagreed?

Anyway, there was plenty of opposition in Germany. Shroeder owed his re-election to voicing disapproval of Bush, and there was the Joska Fischer flap, for example. We just have a thing with the French. I think it’s like sibling rivalry in a way, but there’s also a resentment from a lot of people in America who feel the French are always looking down on them.

This is exactly my intent, Zoe. When one speaks of France acting in one way or the other in regard to a certain situation, one is clearly not speaking of individual people who may or may not behave in the same way. I, for example, have been speaking of France’s government and not French people. From what I know of France, I would love to spend time there. (In fact, I’ve very much been wanting to hear about your trip but didn’t know how to ask, and it didn’t seem appropriate for a public board.) There is a great deal about France and the delightful art, architechture, food and romance it has to offer that I think I would absolutely fall in love with…and in fact pretty much already have. It’s France’s leaders and government I have a problem with.

You are very welcome.

Regards. :slight_smile:

To be honest? Neither. I am not particularly happy with French foreign policy of the past 20 years, or German foreign policy of the past 10 years. But I’m not about to demonize them for it, either. And, anyone who does, only proves themselves to be idiots.

Just my opinion, and likely worth what you paid for it. :smiley:

They didn’t have an obligation to shut up, but neither did they have an obligation to pro-actively attempt to thwart us…you know…what with us supposedly being alllies and all.

Yes, the French do seem to have a reputation for being rude and snotty (there’s one for the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.) and condescending to Americans, but I long ago disabused myself of that notion. Someone I knew who had been there said Americans tend to think of the French as they are in Paris. He said Paris is a large, crowded city like New York City and that yes, people there can be a pain, just like New Yorkers have had the reputation of being a pain. But he said once you got outside of Paris, the French are warm, friendly and hospitable. He explained to me that it wasn’t fair or accurate to judge all French people by those in Paris, and I’ve carried that knowledge with me ever since.

But like I said, if France had paid its war debt and behaved more like an ally than an opponent for the last five decades I would probably feel differently about their stance on Iraq. It would be easier to accept they were acting out of enlightened self-interest rather than just trying to oppose the U.S., as they are frequently wont to do.

If you think it’s time to stop bashing the French, I ask you this: do you think the French are done bashing the Americans?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, sure they are. :rolleyes:

Besides, the French make themselves such EASY targets, you have to believe that way deep down they like the attention. :wink:

Cheers,
Powers