Can we cut the French a little slack now?

[clairobscur]

@lno

.A ‘crater’ test is an underground test placed shallowly enough to cause a visible eruption of earth.

Then, I concede the point.

The only 1972 date relevant to this that I can find is the conclusion of SALT I (Strategic Arms Limitation Talks).

Actually, I suspect, given the content, that all three sites are somehow related to greenpeace France, hence get the date from the same source. Possibly a mix-up by greenpeace between the discontinuation of nuclear tests in Amchitka (which happened in 1972, and apparently was a founding stone of greenpeace) and the discontinuation of surface tests.

Doesn’t matter anyway, since the treaty was signed in 1963 and the tests effectively discontinued by this date.

[Legolamb]

@Starving Artist

Legolamb, you raise several interesting points as well. Unfortunately, I disagree with virtually all of them. I’ll try get back to you, too.

I really hope the first paragraph of the second post wasn’t one of them. Can you seriously tell me that war shouldn’t be the last resort? That there wasn’t anything else that could have been done in this situation that would have prevented the loss of so many innocent lives? After all, if you felt that another country’s claims for wanting to go to war were based on faulty evidence, wouldn’t you do anything you could to stop it from happening, to resolve the situation without bloodshed?

[DMC]

To Starving Artist, and anyone else who is arguing what someone did or did not say, I propose you read this. If you read it from the top down, it’s quite enlightening, as the backpedaling is brutally obvious.

As an aside, one of my favorite Bush quotes is from an interview with Diane Sawyer:

@Sawyer

But stated as a hard fact, that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons still —

@Bush

So what’s the difference?

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@RickJay

CANADA certainly did not give up 1.7 million lives to save France.

Never said that

Don’t be crediting Canada with the sacrifices of British, Indian, Australian, etc. boys.

I’m not. I’m bashing France, not extolling the virtues of Canada.

As for the general point, so what? Canada still keeps its aboriginal people in an apartheid legal limbo, was responsible for helping start the problems in Sudan that plague that country today, etc. etc.

Utter crap. Every native Canadian has all the legal rights available to every other Canadian if they so choose to exercise those rights.

As for the Sudan, explain to me how Canada is somehow responsible for the genocide in Darfur.

The United States - the other dog in the argument, you may remember - has in the last fifty years supported genocidal dictators and committed genocide itself in Laos.

Don’t be bashing Canada with the…

Let’s be quite honest; EVERY country with the means to do so has acted like a bastard, because that’s what they do. The point of the thread is that the weird U.S. PR campaign against France was, and is, total bullshit.

Lets be quite honest. No one is orchestrating a campaign against France. The negative grassroots attitude even permeates the so called left wing contingent of the SDMB.

Actually, its quite refreshing to see another country get bashed besides our neighbour to the south. Ever come to America’s defence like you just did for France?

[RickJay]

@grienspace

Never said that

You quite deliberately conflated Canada’s sacrifices in the World Wars with those of the rest of the Commonwealth:

I haven’t forgotten de Gaulle’s attempt to influence the destruction of my country, a member of the British Commonwealth, that gave up 1.7 million lives fighting the two world wars for which France was the primary beneficiary.

If you wanted to discuss Canada, you would have cited the correct figure for Canadian war casualties, which is approximately 97,000 and which you could have looked up in about five seconds on Google like I just did.

I’m not. I’m bashing France, not extolling the virtues of Canada.

If you want to “Bash France” along with the U.S. smear campaign, don’t be surprised if you get called on the same bullshit. Once again, this thread is about the U.S. campaign to smear France, and once again, it was bullshit.

Utter crap. Every native Canadian has all the legal rights available to every other Canadian if they so choose to exercise those rights.

The majority of the aboriginal population of this country still lives in utter misery in government-subsidized reserves. It’s a direct consequence of the policies of our government, and we have to accept responsibility for that.

As for the Sudan, explain to me how Canada is somehow responsible for the genocide in Darfur.

I suggest you do some studying into the history of Canadian corporate interests, such as Talisman Energy, in Sudan - interests that were supported by our government, I might add.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2868047.stm

Lets be quite honest. No one is orchestrating a campaign against France.

Give me a fucking break. Have you been hiding at the bottom of Shitbrain Cave for the last two years? Are you actually trying to tell me the U.S. govenrment, with the complicity of the media, has not tried to distract from its own lies by trying to portray France as the bad guy?

If you want to count yourself among the mouth-breathing fucktards to who choose to hate France because you’re told to by the movin’ picture box in the living room, that’s your call, but I still get to point out that you’re a fucktard.

Actually, its quite refreshing to see another country get bashed besides our neighbour to the south. Ever come to America’s defence like you just did for France?

As a matter of fact I have, on many, many occasions. I have always been an opponent of typically Canadian reflexive US-bashing. What’s it to you?