It’s illogical and bloody stupid to believe that its statistically unlikely that a white man would rape a black woman. I still believe that.
It’s unjust to view accusations of white-on-black rape with automatic suspicion, without the benefit of evidence or knowing anyone’s credibility. I still believe that.
That anyone who believes that race determines someone’s proclivity to rape or be raped is an idiot racist. I still believe that.
Of course it does. This is the absolute *least *thing that can happen. It is so far from just as to leave justice dead in the dust. If I beat on you for a year, and one day stop beating, is that just? Is that fair? Would you say to yourself “Hey, now I can get on with my life, justice has been served?” I really rather think not. You would want some recompense for the beating before you would even think of it being a good outcome. Of course, it’s *good *that you are no longer being beaten on a daily basis, but for you to think of it as *just *would be simply bizarre. Of course it’s good that the charges are being dropped, but good has little to do with justice. Justice has to do with what is fair, and appropriate.
In point of fact, there has been no justice for these men. They never saw the inside of a courtroom to answer the vile and false charges. They have been judged by the media, and by special interests with axes to grind, but not by the justice system. No judge or jury ever evaluated their guilt or innocence.
“Oops, my bad,” is hardly justice. It is a travesty of justice.
Nifong is a poopy head!!!1 He’s an idiot and evil. I hate him! Need to write my congressman about him, yes I do.
No, but seriously. I hope he gets what he fully deserves for the havoc he’s caused! I did give him the benefit of the doubt because I figure as a District Attorney that is a reasonable thing to do. Not going to apologize for that, so sorry if that’s what you were looking for.
Kinda sad that Bricker and yourself have been waiting around with baited breath for that, isn’t it? That was what, one post out of eleventy billion from me? Written a whole year ago? Didn’t know you were that enthralled with my opinions and it kind of gives me goosebumps, it does.
Yes, but considering the fact that no one can go back in time and prevent Crystal Mangum and Mike Nifong from behaving as they did, what else should be done?
What happened to the Duke students should not have happened, but since it did, I think this is the best ultimate outcome.
But . . . do you not agree as to the posters (self included) who have suggested with great specificity “what else” can be done to and with Nifong and Mangum and the City of Durham? Or is the nolle prosequi decision literally, in your mind, the “ultimate” (meaning final) outcome, and all that should happen?
Beyond applying retributive justice to the criminals in this case, do you not see a value in discussing the issues raised here, such as the ugliness of racial mob politics, the fact that Grand Jurors apparently will, as the old saying goes, indict a ham sandwich, the unaccountability of dumbass college faculties, the dangers of prosecutorial discretion, and the fact that women definitely do sometimes lie about rape? I think those are all important issues/lessons, and ones that we risk not learning with a blithe “justice has been done, let’s not talk about this anymore” approach to this train wreck.
But not justice, which is what I took issue with in your original comment. My complaint is that you have claimed that it is a *just *outcome. And you did.
The word “good” does not appear in your post, and your attempt to shift the argument to whether the outcome is good or not is transparent, and beneath you, and by no means a dead horse.
It is a dead horse. A dead horse you continue to flog because you get off on being outraged over this, and to such an extent that you’re actually arguing me because I said justice has led to the charges being dropped in this case.
This is loony toons to me and I haven’t the time for it. Call it good, if calling it justice offends you. Shit, call it orange marmalade. I don’t care anymore.
Huerta88, I don’t know why you’re bothering. At least 9 people out of 10 here will never, ever, ever just admit they were wrong and try to approach an issue honestly. I don’t know what it is about this Board that attracts such tireless debaters who are so terrified of just admitting they were wrong - people who will deny a ship has sunk while it sits on the bottom of the ocean and happy little crabs and seahorses play a calypso tune in the ballroom - but that’s the culture of the SDMB, I’m afraid. Just like the Group of 88, you’re not going to get too many people, if any, who condemned those students or supported the accuser to just admit they were wrong and start taking that will-o-the-wisp of “innocent until proven guilty” seriously.
(Sigh.) It’s a really short thread. Many suggestions have been offered. FOR STARTERS, the falsely accused can be compensated dollar for dollar for out of pocket expenses, and for whatever a jury finds proper for pain suffering, and punitive damages. The Group of 88 can apologize. Nifong can apologize. Nifong can lose his law license. Nifong can go to jail. Nifong can pay his last red cent to the falsely accused students. Richard Broadhead can apologize. Richard Broadhead can lose his job. The professor who flunked two LAX`students can be fired. The NAACP can apologize. Lynwood Smith can be fired. Lynwood Smith can pay his last red cent to the students. Meehan can lose his business. Meehan can go to jail. Meehan can pay his last red cent to the students.
Crystal Mangum can go to jail, for at least as long of a sentence as the students faced.
What Huerta88 said.
There’s lots more. Let me know if you need to see it.
This is so far from the best ultimate outcome as to make me suspect that you do not kow what those words mean.
This is what you actually said, just upthread. “Yay, justice has been done.”
As **Una **points out, some people will simply not admit when they are wrong. You did not say that justice has led to the charges being dropped. You said justice has been done, quite sarcastically (Yay) and then when that proved obviously false, tried to argue that “good” equals “justice.” Now you claim that it’s all semantics. “Call it orange marmalade.” How about I call it specious bullshit, and say your mouth is full of it?
I think both Nifong and Mangum should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I think Nifong should be disbarred.
But I do think that having the charges dropped is, in fact a good/just thing for the Duke students. In the overarching context of a horrible, wrong thing, yes. But better than having to go forward with a trial.
Of course, I didn’t take part in the previous “Lying Whore” thread, so perhaps I’m missing something.
I can’t speak for the falsely accused students, and I can’t imagine what it would be like to be in their position. Also a trial would just cost more money. But, and this is a big one, it would expose the accuser for the liar that she is, and show to the world that the “evidence” of guilt was manufactured from whole cloth. As it stands, there are powerful, influential groups who will continue to maintain that the accused were guilty of horrible crimes, and only “got off” because they were white, and privileged.
Man, I am astounded at the difficulty some people around here have admitting they were wrong.
Let me spell out the process I’ve gone through in regards to this case. I never posted an early opinion on this case because I didn’t think there was anything to all this hubbub. Like you with the face, I found it hard to believe a DA would so publicly push a false case, because a false case would inevitably fall apart.
Man, oh man, was I ever proven wrong. The evidence has long since shown that Nifong did indeed pull this entire case out of his ass, all in a cynical (and, sadder to say, successful) attempt to get the black vote.
Because of this astounding corruption of the justice system for personal advancement, I now believe that not only should he be disbarred and removed from office, he should be charged with very serious crimes, convicted, and sent to jail for a very, very long time. As in ten to twenty years. Our justice system depends on its integrity, and those who break it should be judged harshly.
I disagree. I don’t think the cost and stress of a trial would be worth it, personally. It seems as though the accuser has been pretty fully exposed as a liar by now.
Has any group actually continued making such a claim?