For the sake of this debate, I’m going to limit the argument and define the two terms as such:
Religious: Belonging to one of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam and their offshoots such as Mormonism et al). Obviously ‘religious’ could mean a myriad of other things, but the shorthand for the term religious is as such for this thread.
**Doper: ** Someone not only belonging to this website and forum, but someone committed to fighting ignorance.
As a weak atheist, I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around those who choose to be religious and are also here fighting ignorance. So yes, that’s an inflammatory thing to say, I am equating being religious to being ignorant. But there are too many things that are in those religions (being swallowed by a fish for a couple days and living, turning water into wine, or claiming that the Quran must have come from Allah since there are no mistakes in it), that I can’t see how it couldn’t be ignorant to follow things.
So while this could be construed as fodder for the pit, I’d actually like to see how one could be for fighting ignorance while also holding religious beliefs as they seem completely incongruent to me.
I think it is perfectly possible to be selectively ignorant, and maintain the ability to be useful in fighting ignorance in other areas.
I, for instance, am “ignorant” when it comes to sport, and would believe ManU to be the best footie team in the world, even if that ran counter to evidence. That’s a faith-based ignorance of sorts, but it doesn’t invalidate my knowledge of rocks or Medieval cooking.
“Ignorance” is not a monolith. It’s a field of megaliths. You can fight some of them while ignoring others, and it doesn’t invalidate the fighting you did do. IMO.
Everyone falls prey to a certain amount of irrationality, even the greatest skeptic. So, knowing that’s true, it’s really quite obvious that being religious doesn’t preclude one from being dedicated to fighting ignorance. I mean, goodness, some of the world’s greatest thinkers have been religious! Look at Newton!
Certainly, it is good to question one’s own beliefs, and I agree with you that religion is full of nonsense. But that doesn’t mean every religious person is full of nonsense. If you had to be perfectly logical in all ways to be a skeptic, no one would make the cut.
Sure. I’ve been a participating and active member of this site since 2000, and was a practicing Quaker for some significant part of that time. And we have many religious Dopers around here that are valued contributing members of this community.
Faith, by definition, does not require evidence. And there are many types of faith that do not negatively impact other people. I see no contradiction in someone devoted to fighting ignorance still quietly believing that there is, or might be, a God. The contradiction would be someone devoted to fighting ignorance who believes that, say, creationism should be taught in schools, or that atheists are by definition immoral people, or something like that.
I don’t see why not. I mean, even accepting your assumption that holding religious beliefs is, in and of itself, a sign of ignorance (which I disagree with) if we’re going to turn away anyone with a shread of ignorance somewhere in their minds, this is going to be a pretty empty message board. I know I wouldn’t be allowed in.
The OP seems to be equating ignorance with irrationality. I don’t think you can be completely rational and be religious, but that still doesn’t have anything to do with fighting ignorance.
I guess I don’t understand how one could read and believe in the texts and not be ignorant towards things like facts. I’ll re-use the Jonah and the fish since it was used in all three of those religions.
How can one, out of anything but ignorance to things like: not drowning, believe in such a text?
Well, I guess you’ve found me out. I have been living a lie for the past 12 years, and now that I have been exposed as a fraud (because I do consider myself a “religious person” and have been active as a Doper) I presume the only decent thing to do is to shoot myself. It was a good run, I guess.
Oh wait! I may have an out! My Church understands the concept of a metaphor and figurative language. Whew, that was close.