Anyone know where I can get a decent jacket and skirt for under fifty dollars? The local Goodwill is really too scummy.
Err…Andy? It would never occure to me to wear jeans and sneakers to an interview. I don’t smoke pot. I keep my photos in a nice portfolio (and the ones I did of nipple piercing I keep in a seperate portfolio). I like kids (mostly). Where do I apply?
Wow…my first Pit rant and it didn’t sink like a stone.
First of all, Khadaji, you have nothing to apologize for. Your only “crime” seems to be pissing off mhendo, which I’m apparently guilty of too. I thought your story added to this thread, and I think you did your best in a tough situation. It sounds like you care and you would make a good mentor. You can’t live the guy’s life for him, after all.
Now…To address the masses. I conducted 18 interviews. 17 of them wore jeans and one wore sweatpants. I understand that I’m not going to get Walter Iooss Jr. at $20 an hour. With that being said, I do this every year. I don’t discount applicants for wearing jeans if they look clean & neat. I have never had a round of interviews where I did not see one pair of slacks. Not one!! Jesus Christ–I saw sweatpants!
Out of my 17 (let’s let the sweatpants guy slide) applicants, only 4 of them (jeans included) looked neat & clean. The other 13 looked like they didn’t give a shit about the way they looked. I’ve seen stained clothes, wrinkled clothes, Yankee jerseys, T-shirts, a Jagermeister T-shirt, a flannel shirt & converse all-stars. These applicants weren’t talented folks with a different sense of style…their interviewing sucked. Their presentation of their work sucked. Their attitudes sucked. 18 interviews, 2 people I’d even consider. I’m frustrated with the process. Bully for you if you think I’m attacking your precious sensibilities about wearing jeans to a job interview. That’s not the only point of my rant, it’s the only point a bunch of you seem to be harping on.
I wear jeans everyday. Seriously. I’m not out to judge those who wear jeans. Personally, if I were applying for a job, I wouldn’t wear jeans to the interview, but that’s just me. Dress for the job you want, not the one you have & all that. I’m not shocked that there are people who choose to wear jeans to interviews. I’m shocked that 100% of my applicants made this decision.
So, to address a few things said…
Foible, I can’t fault you for what works for you. I don’t know what kind of job you have, but you must admit that some potential employers care if you wear a suit. I don’t. I want to see that you made some effort to look “good.” In your example, you mention “clean pants and a polo shirt.” I’m certainly not complaining about you or people like you. You made an effort.
mhendo, you said “The OP’s complaint was about people wearing jeans to an interview.” That’s not really true. Check out a few of the other things I bitched about. My gripe is about not caring at all about how you look when showing up to my office to interview for a job…among other things. You’re not seeing people defend smelly or disheveled, but I got a bunch of both with this round of interviews. But just to entertain you…you must admit that there are instances in this world where jeans would not be appropriate in an interview setting. You want to say you don’t like it? Fine. Don’t interview for those jobs.
pulykamell, I was waiting for someone to bitch that $20 an hour isn’t enough to care about the interview. I know I shouldn’t expect studio owners & long time wedding photographers. I don’t. I’m not getting the best & the brightest. I’m not getting you. I understand that. These people took the time to schedule an interview, they should make the effort to look like they care. If that effort includes jeans & sneakers…so be it. In these instances, I didn’t see the effort.
BTW…what kind of photography do you do? Are there any occasions where your assignment dictates your dress? Do you hire assistants? Do you care about how they present themselves?
CandidGamera, you are so damn clueless I don’t think you even know what you are defending anymore. I am thoroughly enjoying reading your posts though, and if you’re ever down NY way, I’d be glad to buy you a drink. You sound like someone I’d like, just not someone I’d hire.
Mr. Excellent, I couldn’t agree with you more.
catsix, you’re right. People shouldn’t judge people based on anything. The assumption should be made that everyone is a splendid candidate regardless of what they look like. Seriously…define “comfortable & neat.” Because if your definition of neat doesn’t match mine, and I’m your boss, It’s going to matter. If I feel that it’s affecting your work, I’m going to tell you so. What’s more…I have the right to.
And finally roger thornhill…I’m home now & I want to chill. Mate, suggest the appropriate cocktail for such an occasion & I’ll get right to work shaking or stirring it up.
Andy, man, I know fuck all about cocktails, and I’ve never smoked a dooby (is that the right word?) in my life. When don’t you play a few riffs on your Stratocaster and boogie on out a New York minute?
I just wanted to say I enjoyed your Warrant reference. Now if you’ll excuse me, me and my fringed jacket are off to the Whitesnake reunion concert. Enjoy your drinks.
Flip
(Who always tried to dress appropriately for an interview)
Ach…you wound me.
::Picks up Ovation::
::Strums a few chords::
::sings::
"Just for the record let’s get the story straight
Me and Uncle Tom were fishin’ it was gettin’ Pretty late
Out on a cypress limb above the wishin’ well
Where they say it got no bottom say it take
You down to Hell
I know a secret down at Uncle Tom’s cabin…oh yeah
I know a secret that I just can’t tell"
:: puts guitar down::
::feels shame::
I’m going to have a beer.
Odd. I’m still an undergrad (though in my fifth year), and I can think of at least six profs I’ve had for various poli sci or history courses that wore suits. One would alternate between suits and cardigans, four just wore suits, and one wore a suit and a bow tie.
“You can see people regress… Like at work. ‘You’re not the boss of ME! … oh, wait a minute, that’s not true…’” - Elvira Kurt
Boy, you is nutty as Kaitlyn.
Long as you don’t go drinking that Merkyn shit.
Do you know Dr Hook’s Cover of the Rolling Stone? I think you could do a mean version of that.
Don’t put words in my mouth. That’s not what I said. It’s not the money–it’s the job itself. I’ve dressed up for interviews for $12/hr office jobs, where such a dress code is expected. I even dressed up for the tests at the temp agency gigs I once worked with. But this is what corporate America expects of you. I don’t expect photo studios or, in my case, photo editors to have the same sartorial expectations and, hence, would be more lax in dress.
If I were interviewing a photographer to work with me, I would not expect him to dress up for the interview. I would expect him to look presentable, but that’s it. If it’s jeans or black slacks, it matters not to me, and I haven’t noticed it matter to most people. It’s not about “not caring about the interview.” It’s that I don’t think most photographers think their prospective employers expect them to wear business clothes to an interview at a studio. I don’t.
Sorry, missed that.
Mostly photojournalism, although now I’m turning to wedding photojournalism since that’s where the money is. Yes, of course there’s occassions where my assignment dictates the way I dress. I always dress in a manner I feel is respectful and appropriate. For weddings, I always wear a shirt & tie. For engagment shots, I dress absolutely casually (jeans, tee-shirt, whatever.) For documentary work, I wear normal street clothes. I get dirty in most situations I shoot, so I don’t wear nice clothes most of the time.
And I do get annoyed if I see photographers dressed inappropriately for situations (e.g. casual clothes for a funeral). But, like I said before, I don’t feel an interview with a photo editor or studio necessarily warrants more than presentable casual clothing.
And, yes, if I work with another photographer during a wedding assignment, I expect them to wear at least a dress shirt and dress pants (or nice skirt.) But I don’t expect them to wear this meeting with me for the first time.
In my experience, appropriate dress is regional and industry. I’m in Minnesota. Most of my coworkers are in Silicon Valley. I work in IT in a tech firm. In the Valley had to be told shoes were required as part of business casual dress. In my former job, the home office was out of NYC, the industry was finance, and suits were the uniform.
Second, I’ve noticed that our office is slowing getting more formal. We were a jeans place - and a lot of people still wear jeans. But of late there are more and more khaki’s and collared shirts. I think, given the job market and several rounds of layoffs, a lot of people are eagar to get even a marginal edge.
And that marginal edge is what interviews are about. Its hard to convince someone in a few hours that you have the best tech skills - especially when you have no idea what the competition is bringing to the table. Back when the job market was wide open, who cared! Now there are lots of applicants for a job - and some of them might be almost as good as you are and dressed better.
People do extrapolate dress into other skills…sloppy dress, perhaps he’s a sloppy coder. Doesn’t take care of himself, perhaps he won’t take care of the job. Doesn’t show awareness of how to dress for an interview, perhaps he won’t be aware of the social niceities that keep us from killing one another.
Kaufmann’s, this weekend. Really! They’ve got a sale on at Kaufmann’s and I needed a new outfit for Easter which is why I happened to know about this.
Target and the place you used to work for which I will not name also tend to have pretty good stuff, although I’d shop at Target first. I recommend spending the extra money for a good “interview suit” even if it’s only one you wear to interviews. Think of it as an investment. I tend to be insecure, but I feel a lot more confident if I know I look like a competent professional.
In your case, you can also borrow one from me if you need to. I’ve got good jackets in black, white, grey, and hunter green and I seem to remember that we’re about the same size. If you like, e-mail me and we can arrange to go shopping, although I’m not very good at it.
CJ
I do a lot of freelancing, but currently I’m working for a company in an office, a job I really enjoy with people I like, which I hope to keep til I “retire”.
When I was called in after jumping the paper hoops, of course I went in wearing a suit. Everyone there was in business casual or just plain casual. No one deals with the public face-to-face at that office, so jeans are acceptable, even t-shirts, and I was informed of that during the first interview.
On subsequent interviews, I still wore a suit. Partly because I’m old school and can’t imagine not. But also, I believe it shows some respect, some effort, a desire to present your best.
The job market today is tough. If you’re not willing to put forth your best when your own interests are at stake, how can an employer expect that you’ll do so when his/her interests are at stake?
See…I probably agree with you here more than I’d care to admit…and it pisses me off! 
My apologies, pulykamel, my frustrations should be directed in a more productive manner. Although I personally wouldn’t wear jeans to an interview, I’m not discounting qualified applicants who do. I guess I’m surprised my rant has turned into a 3 page thread about jeans vs. not jeans.
(bolding mine)
I guess I’m trying not to come down on the side of the man in this debate, but I am surprised this year. 17 interviews, 17 pairs of jeans. Yes, in my office I did not expect that. In your experience, you may. I interviewed with a rock band (not Warrant) to provide photo coverage for them & I dressed quite casual…I wore jeans in fact. I sat down with a sports magazine & wore a suit. There’s no way I’d wear a suit while shooting a Mets game, but at the interview I did. Again, I guess I expected to see a few people in attire other than jeans (or sweatpants.) I certainly didn’t expect only a few of them to actually look neat. Only a few of them did, hence my rant.
Belive me, If I was sitting here today sifting through a stack of applications that belonged to qualified candidates in every way, but I felt they were too casual for the interview, this rant would be a celebratory thread in MPSIMS.
Allright…I’m off to learn a song by a man named Dr. Hook.
I’m a hopeless nitpicker, and I just can’t let this go.
The OP wasn’t about wearing jeans to an interview. No, strike that … it was about that, but its primary thrust was showing up to an interview dressed appropriately. Jeans would be one facet of that, but as noted in the OP, it’s not the only facet.
So it seems to me you’re the one being disengenuous. Don’t tell me (or other posters) “You’re creating a strawman by talking about being disheveled or smelly because it wasn’t the main thrust of his OP” when being smelly and disheveled (as I noted in the part of the OP I quoted) was specifically mentioned. Wearing jeans also wasn’t the main thrust of the OP.
It’s all about dressing appropriately for the job you want. I work with commercial photographers, and they dress casually – beat-up jeans, worn sneakers, old sweatshirts or t-shirts. They’re right to do so; they’re usually gonna get dirty and sweaty during our photo shoots. I also have taken my children to be photographed in a studio numerous times, and each time the photographer has been in slacks and a dress shirt or blouse. This applies even to such low-end photography studios as Wal-Mart. Different standards of dress, solely based on the photographer’s interaction with the public.
Those of you in the IT industry, please remember that an important function of the position mentioned in the OP is working with the public. You folks, as a function of your jobs, don’t have to work with the public, so the dress code can be relaxed at the company’s discretion.
This isn’t a difficult concept. This quote from Sample_the_Dog sums it up well, in my opinion: “If you’re not willing to put forth your best when your own interests are at stake, how can an employer expect that you’ll do so when his/her interests are at stake?”
If they told me the job was “casual, fun, and laid-back”, I might. Those words almost mean jeans, to me.
Oh, the pain, the pain, when capitalists are faced with the disadvantages of capitalism.
You are offering something (a job) for something else (an employee). What you have offered in exchange has gotten you (your applicants) that which does not meet your requirements (not one of the eighteen - awfully small number of respondents, by the way - met your standards) and you find fault with the supply, rather than your offer. If I wanted to purchase quality portraits of all my children for ten bucks, I assume you’d be amenable to meeting my price because I’ve decided that that’s the price I’ll pay and I have a right to do that, just as you have a right to specify what you get for the price you’re willing to pay. Right?
You have a perfect right to pit applicants who do not meet your standards. For that matter I have a right to demand that I should be able to buy a working television set for fifty dollars. Good luck to both of us. The solution to not getting what you want for a certain price should be obvious to any businessman: specify what you want, and offer as much as it takes to get it.
Disclaimer: The King of Soup has worn a suit and tie to every interview he has ever undergone.
Yes, this is exactly the attitude you have to deal with. You must dress as people like if you want to work for them. You can still hate them for making you dress that way, but you can’t show it while in their employ. Ugly world, ain’t it?
I’m just saying, if you’re gonna be a complete nonconsensual ass about employment, know that you will be hated, and that SOME of the people who hate you will find ways to get back at you.
You and several others that have replied in this vein miss my point.
I recognize that employers have the power to regulate how their employees dress during working hours. They have that power. So I cna’t be said to be arguing FOR shabby dress in job interviews, can I? If you can show me any place where I have done so, I’d be mighty interested.
My point is this: employers and managers have the power to control how people dress when they come in for interviews, through the choices and decisions they make. Recognize, though, that if your only justification for those choices is the autocratic, "It’s MY company/department/whatever, I can run it as I like, people may well resent you. They might resent you even if you trot out what you feel are reasonable justifications for your decisions, if they don’t share your opinions. There is nothing THEY can do about your power to determine what they wear except try to reason with you. There is nothing YOU can do about their ability to resent and hate you for your decisions except trying to reason with them.
This “It’s MY company” stuff is therefore a load of shit.