Out of curiosity, can you get a do not resuscitate order without a terminal disease? Say, can you get an order saying you don’t wish to be treated after a car accident? (Assuming someone is there to tell them about the order.)
Here in Canada as far as I know you can have a DNR in any situation. As a part of my Will I have specified that if after consultation from 3 doctors there is little chance of a recovery then the DNR kicks in.
Also if you are planning on donating your organs it is a good idea to let your loved ones know your wishes because they will always ask regardless of what you have writen pon the back of your drivers licence.
You can have what is known as a “living will” which pretty much states you don’t want any artificial life support if the need arises. (I found an online registry at: http://www.uslivingwillregistry.com/ )
Most importantly you need to let your friends and family know of your preferences unless you’re going to carry a hard copy of it around your neck on a string or something. If you’re ever in the situation to need to decline life support, you aren’t exactly going to be able to speak up about it. This goes for organ donation as well.
voguevixen is right about notifying friends & relatives. Be sure they agree with your decision, though - especially about organ donation.
According to several doctors I’ve heard, it won’t matter if you have a donor card in each hand and one taped to your forehead, if your relatives say “no”, the doctors most likely won’t follow your wishes. You’re going to be dead & won’t sue, your relatives could.
One way to avoid this problem is to have a special power of attorney which would go into effect when you’re incapacitated. If you find someone you can trust to abide by your wishes, they can act legally on your behalf.
Another way a doctor told me about where the doctors over-rode the family was when the accident victim had the text of the donor card tattooed to the sole of her foot. She knew her family dissapproved of her decision, but wanted to be sure her wishes were obeyed. They were.
I’m not specifically referring to vegetable state/life support issues. I mean is it possible to refuse any critical medical attention at all? Say you’re in a car accident, and can be saved by medical attention - can you refuse that with a DNR order?
Yes you can, SenorBeef. If you are conscious, AND are deemed to be of sound mind at the location of the accident, then you can do what we call in NY State an “RMA” - Refusal of Medical Assistance".
You are agreeing that while trained medical professionals have advised you of the risks of injury due to your accident ( and, have likely STRONGLY begged you to allow them to transport you ), you are in fact NOT required to let them do anything to you in any way. You may refuse any and all treatments. You may not refuse extrication from a wrecked vehicle as far as I know, since your presence in a wrecked car is an immediate danger to yourself and others.
Having said that, I have been to MVA ( motor vehicle accident ) scenes where we basically turned to the police and said, " Arrest her so we can treat her". That kind of extreme measure is done when a persons is in an altered mental state, and is belligerent- i.e., drunk. Otherwise, if you are able to prove you are okay mentally, you are not allowed to be forced to take treatment.
In point of fact, in most states, if an EMT or Paramedic does anything to treat someone who is insisting that they NOT be treated, that personnel may be charged with assault and battery. I know in NYS, we were advised to be very careful NEVER to try anything close to that.
Now, SenorBeef, I can honestly not imagine a scenario where you will be A) In dire risk of losing your life AND B) Conscious, alert and oriented X 2 and able to make an Informed Consent decision. If you are in a car accident, and NEED to be saved by medical attention, I am here to tell you that - aside from a few special situations which I will address in a moment- you are not going to be conscious.
If you are in an MVA, and you have a cardiac condition, and you begin to have a heart attack, I suppose you are still in sound mental condition and if you chose to do so, could try to stop the medical personnel on site from doing anything to save you.
**Here is the problem. **You would have to carry an up-to-date, certified Living Will/Health Care Proxy/ Do Not Recussitate set of orders. NOT xeroxes either, the real deal. If you were having a heart attack, and had those papers ON HAND, at the car accident scene, then any medical personnel who attempted to stop you from dying a death due to heart attack would in fact be guilty of assault and battery.
I’d hate to be the one to stand and watch it, but the law is extremely clear- on both sides. It might be your wish, and you might verbalize it, but if you do not have a proper set of paperwork, then your life will indeed be saved.
Got that? Health Care Proxy/ Living Will/ Do Not Recussitate Orders. Signed by your Dr. An odd thing to carry around in your car, but AFAIK it is the only way to be allowed to die, if you are conscious and fully alert, and are being watched by medical personnel.
Whew.
Cartooniverse
Yes Christian Scientists (followers of the Church of Christ, Scientist) Do it all the time. They allow for the setting of broken bones, but all other medical treatments are discouraged with “scientific prayer” in its place. There are many groups besides Christian Scientists that encourage or require the refusal of medical care including the Jehovahs Witnesses who refuse Blood Transfusions.
So Adults in the U.S. can and do refuse life saving medical attention, including DNR’s all the time.
But the REAL question is what about if your folks are faith healers and you’re a kid with diabetes… what then? THAT is a very open question and courts have intervened to save the kids (by requiring medical treatment) and charges have been brought vs. parents when the kid dies. IANAL, but my understanding (I may be wrong here) is that usually the state intervenes when routine stuff (like insulin or antibiotics) will clearly save Junior and not when the Rev. tells Ma not to get chemo … in that case you’re usually on your own.
Ok, thanks.
>ahem< No hijacking… the OP’er asked about clearcut medical trauma, as an adult. No need to drag religious issues into a thread that didn’t start that way. What you said was NOT the “real question”.
The real question was stated very clearly by our OP.
My two cents.
Cartooniverse
I did answer the OP.
I said in two paragraphs what you said in 9 namely “yes you can refuse DNRs”. I used real world examples that we can all relate to as opposed to long circuitous hard to follow paragraphs. I put in a caveat about minors, because I was sure if I did not someone else would. Specifically “no, in some cases minors cannot refuse treatment DNRs even with their folks permission”. Contrary to your assertion, the OP says nothing about adults.
I sense this may be more about me posting 1 minute following you and so short circuiting your Magnum Opus in novella form & I’m sorry about that. It sucks & I hate it when that happens to me, it was unintentional. Having said that, I think it is clear who the hijacker is, I hope I have met your needs.
You think a very thorough answer from me was a hijack? Take it to the Pit, but you better make it damned good.
Don’t put words into my mouth, or attribute quotes to me that I did not say-** there is a warning at the head of every message board on SDMB from an Administrator, requiring you to only use direct and accurate quotes, or risk either a warn or banning. **
Show me the quote where I said, " Yes you can refuse DNR’s ". It does not exist. You owe me an apology for putting words into my mouth and attributing a quote to me that in fact is an illegal act in the state of New York. If I were faced with a DNR and refused to abide by it’s requirements, and brought back a dead patient, I would be guilty of assault. Show me where I said those words, please.
Read what you just wrote very carefully. The OP did NOT ask, " can you REFUSE a DNR." What exactly is refusing a DNR, and who would be in the position to do so? Please enlighted us. “Refusing a DNR” is a phrase I am not familiar with.
The OP asked,
He/She asked if you can refuse TREATMENT at the scene of an MVA. I felt I answered that question. You did not, you rambled off on a tear about Religious Groups and dying children. I’m sorry you didn’t like the fact that I answered the OP more thoroughly than you did, or that I was a bit more articulate, yet chose not to insult any religious groups in my answer.
I can handle the term “Magnum Opus”- my answer was as fully complete as I could make it.
This is the Straight Dope,not Dear Abby. I was trying to answer the real OP’er as best as I could. That took nine paragraphs? Fine.
My needs are met by my equals. 
Cartooniverse
I would just like to add that DNR’s are not usually applicable in an emergency situation.
Most living wills start with the stipulation that “if I am in a permanently vegative state and/or am no longer able to make my wishes known”…then I will grant Power of Attorney for Health Care Purposes to ______.
Even if a person was dying of cancer and was in a horrible accident resulting in needing CPR and resucitation, then I am fairly certain that person would be resusitated.
I have to say I usually only deal with living wills, DPOAHC, and DNR’s for patients who are in the hospital.
I have no idea how one would deal with removing whatever is up jimmmy’s ass.