Can you make me understand vengeance?

In My Humble Opinion
1

This seemed to be the best forum, since this is a very subjective matter.

I don’t understand vengeance. I cannot recall a single time in my life when I felt anything resembling what I understand to be the desire for “revenge” - wanting to see someone suffer for something they had done to me, my loved ones, or anyone else.

I have been wounded, just as we all have, by many people in many different ways. I’ve had various reactions; anger, pain, sorrow, frustration. But never have I thought to myself: “I want to see the person who did this to me suffer for it! I would enjoy that! I would feel better/happier, my loss would be softened” whatever.

If someone hurts me, I don’t want to hurt them back or see them suffer. I want them to fix it, undo it. I want them to realize that they were hurtful and be apologetic (genuinely, not “be sorry” because they suffered something). I want them to understand their behavior and seek to change it. If what they do is severe enough, I want them to be restrained from doing it again, to me or to others. But I never, ever find myself desiring their suffering or pain. Ever. That just doesn’t seem remotely satisfying, and if anything it would seem to compound whatever unpleasantness has occurred.

So. Can anyone explain to me how vengeance might actually be satisfying, or is it as I see it: just a mindless gut reaction that doesn’t really do anything productive?

2

Must be a guy thing.

3

Perhaps it does involve testosterone poisioning. :slight_smile:

There are some really evil bastards who won’t “make it better”; someone must stop them from doing evil in the future.

Vengeance makes one feel better, I guess. Dismembering terrorists and impaling their living bodies on spikes topping models of the World Trade Center…yeah, I might be able to get into that.
I’m not proud.
:slight_smile:

4

“Making it all better” is not the point.
As I’ve heard so many times on Law & Order… you can’t un-ring the bell.

Once a wrong is done to you, it’s DONE. No amount of apologizing or “making it right” will un-do the wrong that was done to you. So, one must extract vengeance.

Unfortunately, The one initially wronged commits an act against the offending party in a manner that exceeds the original act. That is, you give them an EXTRA kick in the pants as a message not to ever do that again.

Now, the original offending party, having had vengeance visited upon him, feels that he’s been bested by the amount of pain that he received, and decides that perhaps rebuttal is in order. He understands that vengenace was in order, but realizes that the original offended party has now given an ass-kicking greater than was originally received.

Unfortunately, this can go back and forth until one party is rendered permanently unconscious.

5

This is my take on vengeance. (and the reason I selectively use it)

Primarily, I give tit for tat to let the person know that I do not exist to fulfill their sadistic impulses. It’s a tangible lesson that tells the offending party “Every time you hurt me, I will hurt you.” In short, it’s a deterrent against future attacks against me. It’s been my experience that forgiveness and a passive nature act as an implied invitation to future abuse.

The other rationalization is the admonition we all heard at one time or another as children. If, as a child, I were to punch, pummel, or twist one of my brothers; my parents would punch, pummel or twist me similarly. When I registered my displeasure at their sanctions, I was always told “If you don’t want people doing it to you, don’t do it to other people.”

Some people just don’t understand how hurtful their actions are until those actions are turned against them. I don’t derive any particular pleasure from revenge. I always feel a heavy sadness when a person elicits that response from me.

6

I’m not sure this always applies. If I could inflict the same amount of pain or suffering on the person that initially wronged me, I would. Just to show them how it feels, and hopefully make them think twice before doing it again to me or others. I think once you start one-upping, you really stoop down to their level (which I don’t think you’re doing by retaliating, as a retaliation does not equal an uprovoked attack).

7

Well, I’m not as angelic as Stoid, because although I cannot think of any specific instances, I’m sure I must have exacted revenge (nothing serious, mind you) against some transgression. If not, I know I at least desired it, even if I didn’t act on it. The answer to the question reminds me of a Randy Newman song, “I Just Want You to Hurt Like I Do.”

I believe vengence is exacted:

(1) with the hope that the (vengence) punishment will serve as a deterrent against repeating said transgression.

(2) to bestow some sort of empathy in the trasgressor; or put another way, “Hey, how does it feel to be on the other end, pal?”

(3) to save face. Not the noblest of motives, but that sort of thing is printed into humankind IMHO.

8

Two approaches (IMHO) on retribution, payback, revenge, karma, justice (add your tag as you see fit).

  1. Turn the other cheek, be a bigger person, don’t sweat the small stuff, look at the bigger picture, don’t start anything, let it go- Type B personality approach. The meek shall inherit the Earth. Tried it. Didn’t work for me. At all. I was miserable.

  2. I am Samual L. Jackson from Pulp Fiction. Payback is a bitch. If you start it, you better ** finish it, because I will. Go for the Throat. Global Thermonuclear War (WarGames- remember). Don’t F** with me approach. This is the approach I use now. I am happier, more sucessful and rarely have any problems that one of my skills cannot solve. As I was taught- never start a fight, but always finish one.

Life isn’t fair- it’s best to make it clear that there is easier pickings elsewhere. I guess it’s the deterence approach. In a perfect world you wouldn’t need this approach-- unfortunately it ain’t a perfect world.

9

I don’t really understand vengeance either, Stoid. That’s why I asked this same question here a few months ago-

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=118461&highlight=REVENGE

Some of the people that responded had good explanations for it, though.

10

Are you advocating this?
I don’t see any difference between you and the bad guy.
The biggest, ugliest guy wins.
You may use your super hero powers only for good, but what if you and I disagree about good and evil?

11

Cuase there’s no such thing as karma, honestly.

If you want what goes around to come around, you’ve got to make it happen.

12

I don’t get it. I guess some people are angels living among the mere mortals, but for most normal human beings it is instinctive to strike back at something that hurts you. This would be known, I guess, as “the instinct of self-defense.” I’m sure the concept of self-defense is easy to understand.

I can understand asking why people go to such great and elaborate lengths to rationalise, plan, and carry out vengeance, but please, it’s sort of obvious why people FEEL the basic desire, isn’t it? It’s just instinct, as are all emotions.

13

vengeance is to me just a desire for justice gone too far. Justice is something people have a deep sense of and it is not always a matter of exacting revenge. For instance there is “justice” in rewarding smeone for good deeds as weel as bad. Occurances need to be answered though. You reinforce the good and discourage the bad. Usually that is enough but in cases where a wrong is done that can not be repaired, there is a realization that justice is not going to erase the pain of the wrong neither will future good deeds from that person in anyway relieve the current pain. This leaves us feeling that justice is still left undone, or that the culprit did not recieve enough “discouragement” to understand the pain caused or to avoid causing similar pain. What better way to explain a feeling to someone than to induce that same feeling in them. How better to make them understand the gravity of what they have done? Vengeance is a reaction usually to a percieved INTENT to cause harm rather than an accident or result of some other seemingly unrelated event.

14

…One might even say that, by taking vengeance, you’re acting on karma’s behalf, and helping bring the universe back into equilibrium. At least, that’s how I’VE always thought of it.

Plus, it makes me feel better. >:)

Ranchoth

15

I think the emotional desire for vengeance is pain and hurt which become anger, especially if you experience the cycle for several iterations while someone does you wrong over and over.

I agree that it serves no functional purpose, but I’ve felt it. Hate. Desire to hurt back, and “show them”.

16

sometimes, you know that whomever hurt you will do it again. They won’t look at you, and see your superiour moral code, your enlightened outlook on life. Your ability to forgive and forget. They will look at you and see a sucker. A moronic simpleton, deserving of only their hatred and brutality. They will take great pleasure in making you feel pain, for humiliating you. They will not stop, having found something that causes them pleasure. They will enjoy your suffering. They will do whatever they have to to break your noble outlook on life, they will beat on you until you cannot hold onto your faith in the better nature of man.

Then they’ll whine when you pull your buried anger out of a closet deep in your soul and let it run free. Perhaps you’ve been good and call the cops on them. Perhaps you go over their heads and present evidencee of their misdeeds to their parents, or authorities and have peer pressure punish them. Or perhaps you get a bat and solve the problem in the only method man knows to get quick results.

Then, you’ll realise you’ve had your vengeance on them. Then you’ll realise why people enjoy it.

SZ

17

Well, it is “just a mindless gut reaction” but that doesn’t mean it serves no purpose. It serves as a deterrent. Consider it from an evolutionary standpoint, with a very simple example: Someone beats you up and steals your food. If this happens to you a lot, you are less likely to survive, and reproduce and pass on your genes, assuming you are a primitive cave man 100,000 years ago, or any other human being throughout most of evolutionary history.

So, the evolutionary process tended to weed out people who were genuinely pacifistic in nature. The knowledge on the part of the food stealing bullies that their victim, or his family, or tribe, may come after them at a later time for revenge detered them from trying it in the first place. The system didn’t work perfectly, of course…no system does…but it worked well enough so that an instinctive need for vengeance is our evolutionary inheritance as human beings.

Does that help you understand?

18

I had trouble understanding the need for vengance for quite some time, then I met a female I shall refer to as “R”. I met R at work, and we rapidly hit it off. I busted my ass to impress her, and it seemed to work. Then, on the night that I confessed my feelings for R (after months of effort), she bailed on me and hooked up with some other guy. See, the reason she’d been hanging out with me was to occupy her time until she could hook up with that guy. So, here I am with a raw and bleeding broken heart, and she’s off having a good time, and calling me to tell me how wonderful he is! (Salt, meet Wound. Wound, meet Salt.)

Now, if the relationship had fizzled for some other reason, I’d have thought nothing of it. But the fact that she used me, and knew what I felt, and didn’t care, just steamed my clams to no end. It gets better.

After her and dude split up, she tried worming her way back into my heart. I managed to keep my distance, for the most part. Then she called me up one day and insisted that we get together. I agreed simply because I wanted to see what game she was up to this time. (I’d been burned by one of my other ex’s at this point, so I was well prepared for any tricks she might be pulling.)

Turns out that the only reason she wanted to get together with me that time was because I had a movie of hers that she wanted to show one of her boyfriends! I even got to meet her boyfriend! How nice.

At some point she’s asked me what all happened to me since we last saw one another, and I related the story of the other ex that burned me (whom she happened to know). When I finished telling her the story she said, “Well, at least you kept your distance and didn’t get too wrapped up in her.”

I stopped and thought for a second and said, “Well, yeah. I had a good teacher in that regard.”

She jerked and said, “Was that comment directed at me?”

I played Mr. Innocent and responded with, “Did I say your name? Did anyone hear your name? I didn’t hear me say your name. The only way that you could think that comment was directed at you was if you had a guilty conscience and you’ve not done anything to have a guilty conscience, have you?”

Her reply? “Tucker, you’re evil, and I don’t mean that in a good way.” :smiley:

Shortly after that, she decided that her and her boyfriend needed to take a walk. No doubt she had to do a lot of explaining to him. (Especially since she’d chastised him for having a “fuck buddy” once they got together.)

[Principal Skinner]I’m a small, petty man.[/PS]