I’ve heard in survival classes and outward bound demonstrations that you can make fire from ice. By shaping a circular lense of ice with your hands and of course using tinder as fuel you can concentrate the “beam” on the tinder to ignite it, much like lighting Ants on fire with a Magnifying glass. What’s the dope?
That’t not making fire FROM ice, that’s making fire WITH ice.
well you can check out what they say about it over at tracker trail Seems possible, but I don’t know if it would be a prefered way of doing things given how difficult it seems to get the shape right.
Not to mention the need for sun, which isnt always forthcoming in winter.
although apparently it IS possible to make fire from WATER. linky-goodness
How well will it work during a power failure? :smack:
[Willow]
Little tip, don’t do that one on your new bedspread.
[/Willow]
Pat Benatar, IIRC
Just re-read that on their site; I think what they’re saying is that, since there is already oxygen in the air available for combustion, the oxygen being produced by electrolysis is used to adjust the “richness” of the fuel-oxygen mixture (just like you would adjust the opening on a chemistry lab’s Bunsen burner to affect the color and heat output of its flame).
Basically, since you are operating in a situation with two oxygen sources (unlike, say, a rocket engine in outer space), and you often have to adjust the fuel-oxygen mixture of earthbound flames for various reasons, the Aqueon’s design relies upon a steady supply from oxygen source 1 (the room air) to fulfill most combustion needs and relies upon an adjustable supply from source 2 (the oxygen created via electrolysis) to fine-tune the combustion reaction. Presumably, the excess oxygen from source 2 is directed to some outlet away from the flame, so it will not affect the combustion reaction.
Since almost no other earthbound flames that we regularly encounter have an oxygen source other than atmospheric oxygen, I don’t imagine this is a problem that comes up very frequently. It is sort of a clever solution, though–given 2 oxygen sources, how do you regulate combustion? Answer: Put an adjustment valve on the oxygen line that you already have coming out of your electrolysis chamber, and adjust that, leaving the other (much more difficult to control) oxygen source uncontrolled.
Not really, with not from, but…
** The Ice That Burns **
Does that answer your question?
With regard to the Aqueon: Might just as well use the electricity for heat. It takes as much energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen as you realize from the combustion. Electric heaters are much more economical that their system.
You can try burning ice with flourine:
Would PBS Lie? I can’t think why they would here, nor can I think of any reason a lens made of ice wouldn’t focus enough sunlight to raise some smoke. Sure the ice will absorb some of the infrared, and much of the UV, but not nearly all of it.
Liquid water works too.
well you could make a well shaped dish, fill it with water, freeze it, polish it, and it should work. What’s the problem?
Mark my words I will make a lens from ice this winter and photograph the whole thing…mark my words!!!
Try boiling the water first, cooling it, then freezing it; it will result in much clearer ice.
I hate to break it to you, but you live in Phoenix. Ain’t no ice in winter…
I’ve always been skeptical of the “ice lens” approach to firemaking. Unless both the shape and the clarity of the ice are excellent, there is simply no hope at all.
I tried this once, without success. Among other problems, the day was cold and the “frosted” surface of the ice blocked more than enough light to make things hopeless.
I think in order to work you’d need unusually clear ice and temperatures just above freezing, so the surface stays clear but the lens doesn’t melt fast enough to distort its shape. You’d then have to spend some real time and care getting the shape right.
My guess is that it may be possible, but it’s far from being a practical real-world survival skill.
That actually makes a kind of sense. If you’re burning hydrogen and want a quiet-ish life, it’s best not to mix it with half its volume of pure oxygen. Far better to use the nitrogen-buffered oxygen available all around. However, aren’t hydrogen flames damn near colourless anyway? There’s nothing much to incandesce the way there is in a carbon-fuelled flame (including hydrocarbons).
I saw this done on a BBC science show, some time ago now (I think it was one of those BBC2 shows infested with Adam Hart-Davis, and not the one in Squink’s link). The people who tried it videotaped their efforts, and were seen gleefully charring holes through old newspapers with their ice lens. So, yes, I think it’s feasible. Practical? Maybe not.
There is also the problem of the ice melting while you are using it, and dripping water on where you want a fire to be. It’s not a practical survival tool, it’s more of a trick. But it can be done.