Can you tell me about relocating to Montana?

In My Humble Opinion
1

My wife and I are building a house on some land near Swan Lake in northwest Montana. The closest big town in Kalispell, but that’s still a fairly small town in my way of thinking. Both of us have lived almost our entire lives in the SF Bay Area so we are expecting some amount of of culture shock once we move there. I will be keeping my job at a large Silicon Valley firm and I will work out of my house so I’m not retiring, although I plan to spend a fair amount of time fishing and exploring the natural surroundings.

We have visited there a number of times and have gotten along with everyone we have met, but our friends here keep warning us about the folks that live in those “square states” and that we should buy a gun and be prepared for neighbors who may not appreciate us moving out there from California. It seems that most of the people we have met in Montana have some connection to California… either a relative or close friend who had to move there to get a good job.

BTW even though we live near San Francisco we are not bleeding heart liberals, and I consider myself almost a libertarian… which I don’t think would clash with most of the people there.

So if you have relocated from the left or right coasts to Montana (or Wyoming for that matter) have you noticed any backlash from the locals? Have you been welcomed with open arms or at arms length? Any suggestions on how we should interact with the locals would be appreciated…

2

Paging Chronos and Jodi…

3

I moved from the Bay Area to Colorado, which isn’t quite like Montana or Wyoming (not enough people in those states for me!), but perhaps somewhat similar to your situation.

Backlash from the locals? Not much. There are tons of people in Colorado from other states; in fact, few enough people are natives that it seems to be a source of pride for those who are. My guess is that there will be more natives in Montana, but I think as long as you don’t spend all your time moaning about how much better California was, you’ll probably be fine.

One thing I wasn’t expecting about relocating was how I had to readjust to the way seasons worked. In the Bay Area, it’s spring-summer-fog-Indian Summer - Rain. In Colorado, it’s Winter - 4-6 weeks of spring - Summer - 4 weeks of fall. We have actual seasons here, with summer thunderstorms and winter blizzards. I still love the snow, despite having lived here for six years now. I love the proximity to the mountains and how short a time it takes to get out in the middle of nowhere from Denver, which is a pretty big city in these parts.

You will need cold weather gear. I didn’t know what cold felt like until I moved here, and it’s not like it’s Winterpeg or Minnesota or something. But invest in good gloves/mittens, hats, scarves, and layers, plus a shell and warm socks and snow boots. You will be far happier if you are dressed appropriately for the weather.

Things I miss, that you may miss too: The ocean. Getting relatively cheap, good, locally grown produce mostly year-round. My family and friends, most of whom are still in the Bay Area. (well, not that you’d miss MY family, but you know what I mean). Rain. It rarely rains here, and when it does it’s summer which just feels all wrong to me.

I would suggest thinking of the people who you’ll be living near as, you know, people, not “the locals.” The sooner you acclimate yourself to your new state and your new area and your new community, the sooner you’ll feel at home.

4

I lived for two years in the opposite side of the state (southeast corner, right off the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation), which is probably more conservative in terms of mentality and politics than where you’re headed, and the locals (in my town of <500 people, and most everyone else I met) were very welcoming. (But then, I never talked politics with them, so I can’t speak to that.) I moved there from the DC Metro area, but rather than feel an unpleasant culture shock, I took to Montana life right away. It’s so quiet! And empty! And full of nature!

I’m assuming this will be true for you up there: hunting is a big part of the culture, and it was not at all uncommon to run into people strolling down the dirt roads with loaded rifles across their shoulders during hunting season. This was a “Toto, we’re not in [the big city] anymore” moment for me.

The Kalispell area is insanely beautiful – gah, I’m so envious of you right now! I even miss the Montana winters, if you can believe it.

5

I’m a local. Sort of. I was born & raised in Colorado, but have lived in Montana for quite a while, plus my paternal grandmother was born here, so I have a tiny bit of street cred. :wink:

There is a lot more talk about how everyone hates Californians than there is actual hating of Californians, and the former Californians enthusiastically join in after a couple of years.

My tips for getting along with the locals:

  1. Don’t be an asshole until you get to know which variety of asshole is tolerated in your community.

  2. No one cares how they do it in California.

  3. Four wheel drive means four wheel slide. Be a considerate driver, especially in the snow. Practice helps.

  4. Cows poop. A lot. Poop stinks, and draws flies. Pigs are worse. Don’t buy a place near a stockyard, but if you do, don’t whine about the smell.

  5. In February, saying “I just LOVE winter!!!” out loud in public will not make people think you’re from California. It will make them think you are insane and probably dangerous. This can be useful. :smiley:

  6. Goods and services will be much less varied than in higher population density states. You will need to adjust your expectations accordingly, or you will not enjoy life in Montana.

6

Oh, yes, this. This can’t be stressed enough. We lived 45 minutes from the nearest grocery store. That means when you run out of milk at 7:30 pm, you will not have milk tomorrow morning, because that lone grocery store in Broadus closes at 8:00 and there is nowhere else to go.

On the other hand, driving 45 minutes for groceries becomes no big deal.

7

Montana native! I’m not really the opinon the OP’er is looking for – I moved away from, not to – but when did that ever stop me?

Montanans don’t like “Californians” as an amorphous stereotyped group – the kind who drive their Escalade to Albertson’s [grocery store] and then loudly complain that they can’t find the right kind of aged Jarlsberg.

Montanans generally have no problem with individuals who happen to be from California. They will even make the good-hearted if aggravating error of insulting your home-state to your face but qualifying that they don’t mean you, you’re great.

If you have a job with a large Silicon Valley firm and are building a house in the Swan Lake area, you almost certainly have/make more money that 99% of native Montanans. It would be polite to avoid making a big deal about that.

8

Thanks for the advice. I will take it to heart. My goal is to not act like a native, but also not to stand out like a sore thumb.

  1. Montana’s “seasons” are going to be the biggest adjustment for me. I now have to drive 5 hours to see snow… in Montana snow finds you no matter where you are. I will try my best to stay warm during the winter, and will watch how others deal with it.

  2. Discussing politics or religion with strangers is usually a bad idea, so I don’t normally do that. The challenge is to not become defensive when someone talks negatively about California to my face. I wouldn’t talk badly about anyone else’s state, even if I felt that way inside. I will try to let it roll off my back, especially if I find myself in a red-neck bar.

  3. I will not be a loud-mouthed California yahoo who thinks the Golden State is God’s gift to the world. I enjoyed living in CA for the most part, but I’m relocating to Montana for a reason (nobody is putting a gun at my head). In my view every state has its good and bad points.

I have read some blogs where locals complain bitterly that outsiders have come in and bought all the land and made it impossible for them to buy a house. While I can sympathize with their POV, for someone to buy land someone else has to be willing to sell it. Only blaming the purchaser seems a little one sided to me…

9

Bear in mind that the ones who have bad perceptions about California are thinking about the elitist attitude some Californians possess. Specifically, the attitude of people who would tell you to get a gun because of their stereotypes of people who live in Montana.

10

Sounds like you’ll be fine.

Winter really isn’t all that terrible. It will be a new experience for you, but a little research and a willingness to adapt will get you far.

11

California transplants really make it hard on Montana homeowners. A retired California couple can sell their house for 750k and move to Montana, buying a house in Missoula for a similar price. It doesn’t matter to them that salaries are very low in Montana (starting lawyers make around 50k a year- about the lowest in the nation) since they are living on a pension. But that means if you are a young Montana couple looking to settle down you might have to settle for a mobile home- there are tons of them in Montana - because Californians have driven up the home prices far above what local salaries will support.

So it’s not hard to see why there’s resentment towards Californians in the abstract, but in most cases it doesn’t result in people blaming and being mean to specific Californians, as long as they are polite.

12

In my case I purchased a lot in a new development as cheaply as I could, but I didn’t set the price, the seller did. I built a house using a local designer, using a local contractor, local supplies and local labor. I dumped over $650k into the local economy when most others were postponing their projects. While I don’t expect a big thank you from anyone I will be discouraged if I am berated for making homes too expensive for the area. My house isn’t being built for resale so why does it matter how much I end up spending on it?

13

Because you are a convenient target for their general discontent. That is not a trait exclusive to Montana, it’s simply that there are fewer people here, so the whiners and nuts are more noticable, and you seem to be taking it to heart.

Don’t worry about it. Really.

Besides, a bunch of them couldn’t afford a house when they lived in California, or New Jersey, or Texas or where ever.

I love the place with all my heart, but there are people here, and people are people, no matter what their zipcode. It’s merely that our loud assholes have a better view than some other places’ loud assholes.

14

You’ll need a pick-up truck . Forget the rabbits cause I don’t expect your wife will cook them for you.

15

There’s a huge gulf between a 750K house and living in a trailer. Your hypothetical young working couple was never in the market for the house your Cali retirees bought. And retired persons from one state have almost no bearing on salaries in another state – in fact, as dolphinboy points out, they create jobs, not destroy them. So while it is true that outsiders can drive up land prices, especially in scenic or desireable areas, I think you overstate the case wildly by asserting a low income young couple can’t afford housing because of a high income retired couple. And Missoula is one of the most expensive towns – if not the most expensive town – in Montana.

But you’re right about lawyers’ salaries in particular. That’s the precise reason I personally don’t live there anymore.

16

Hell, no! Pickups are light assed, and harder to drive in the snow (and on ice) if you don’t know what you’re doing.

Bunnies are no more difficult to cook than chickens, and I’m sure Montana state law has a provision that allows boys to enter a kitchen without any penis-removal penalty.

17

I work in the federal judiciary, and I expect that even a career magistrate law clerk would make what is considered a king’s ransom in Montana. I know the mountains are nice, but I don’t see how the Montana firms get away with paying less than half of what other states pay.

18

Since I get to keep my California salary I will effectively be given myself a 30% raise just by relocating. Of course if I lose my job before I retire in 5 years I am screwed since there are very few high-wage jobs where I am moving to. I would probably be forced to retire early or worse case move back to the Bay Area to find another job. I hope the stock market recovers over the next few years! I guess I’m a bit of a risk taker at heart…

19

They get away with it because they can. There is always someone who wants to “get away from the rat race” or “simplify” their life who will accept a shitty salary to live here.

People forget, or don’t realize, that the state of Montana is larger than California but has fewer people than California’s Ventura county. That means a whole lot fewer customers, most of whom have less money to spend, because they don’t have a lot of customers who have a lot of customers. The money to pay wages must come from somewhere.

Those of us who live here either accept that, or find ways to work around it. In my case, I travel a LOT, because almost all of my income is from out of state. Having two jobs is not uncommon, nor is double dipping.

Employers are hampered by a limited labor pool, which tends to restrain growth, innovation and profit. Good employees tend to not stay/move here because the wages are low. Classic Catch-22 situation.

My home is wonderful in very many ways, but it is NOT paradise.

20

People in Montana make fun of North Dakotans. Just play along when you hear the jokes.

Incidentally, when I moved to Idaho, I discovered people there made fun of Montanans*, but had no problem with North Dakotans. Makes me wonder if people in the border states just poke fun at the state to the east.

  • The jokes revolved around Sheep, and our natural affection for them… in 16 years of living there, I never saw any sheep, so I don’t know where that whole thing came from.

Back to the topic on hand. Do you have kids? When I was a kid, the biggest problem with Montana was boredom. Concerts and big events NEVER come to Montana. The biggest sporting events are high school football, and Pioneer League Baseball (that’s below ‘A’ ball). It was a HUGE deal when my town got its first 6 lane road (Great Falls, 50,000 peeps).

If you want to fly somewhere, don’t expect a non-stop flight, unless you are going to Salt Lake or Minneapolis/St. Paul.