This greatly disappoints me. One of the main reasons I voted for Trudeau was for electoral reform. First part the post is such an archaic system, in the 21st century we can do better. This could end up being very costly for Trudeau at the ballot box in the next election whose is already under a lot of pressure due to carbon tax and debt/deficit issues. I know a lot of my friends are very upset. The reform questionnaire they put it was really badly done and seemed to have bias towards status quo. The only saving grace is the election is a long way off (although I still feel this belongs in Elections) and the official opposition is still in their leadership race.
So any thoughts on this my fellow Canadians (and anybody else)?
To be perfectly honest, I expect this to be largely forgotten by next week, let alone the next election. I don’t get the sense that there is any real appetite for electoral reform among the general population – just look at the result of electoral reform efforts at the provincial level in the 2000s. I don’t believe that things have changed measurably since then.
Hmmm… so just one reply and that one is telling me it is probably no big deal. I must be living in a bubble because almost every person I know is outraged. How odd to have a bubble so seemingly confirmed.
I’m still very disappointed and I’ll be writing a letter to the PMO to express my dissatisfaction.
It’s similar here in the UK, BeepKillBeep. There’s a very motivated quarter of politically-interested people (chiefly Liberal Democrats) who get very excited about electoral reform, but it either runs up against staunch defenders of the status quo, or - their greatest adversary - the vast majority who simply don’t understand and don’t care.
I have to agree with the others that this seems to be a non-issue, which indeed was the main rationale for why it wasn’t pursued. I certainly don’t care about it, and I don’t know anyone who does. Even someone who did care about it would have to admit that there are far more pressing issues in the nation and in the world right now. On an importance scale of 1 to 10, 10 = most important, I would rate this somewhere around zero.
I would like to chime in that electoral reform is very much an important issue with this voter. Liberal slow-rolling then killing reform has raised my ire, if not yours. As a result, I will do my best to work against the interests of the Grits for their arrogance/entitlement.
I have a feeling that the Libs will be helping my mini-crusade up until they are kicked out of power.
I also don’t mind the current system. I don’t see it worth the risk of a whole bunch of messing with the system. I know it won’t necessarily end up being some pizza parliament with all sorts of behind the scenes dealing to cobble together governments after every election, but it might. And what’s the reward? Slightly better proportional representation? Meh.
As far as Liberal “arrogance”, they can afford it on this issue. Most people don’t care.
Count me in the camp of non-issue, with Rysto amd Carnalk already outling most of my reasons. Rates 1/10 in things we need to dedicate energy too right now. FtP is probably not the existential crises it is made out to be.
I agree most Canadians don’t care a lot about this. It’s an issue that a small fraction of the population feels very strongly about, and most people do not find it terribly interesting. Such things tend to sit in stasis.
I would disagree with the implication that it won’t hurt the Liberal government - it’s usually not ONE thing, it’s a combination of things that piles up and makes people sick of them. It accumulates over time, like dirt. There wasn’t one thing that ended the Conservative run. The odds are Trudeau will be re-elected but this won’t help.
As to my thoughts on the system, I agree it is fine, albeit not perfect, the way it is. I am personally unconvinced a different system would produce superior results. If you were going to fix the way our government is structured, how we elect MPs strikes me as being a really weird place to start, given that he have an unelected, pointless, weirdly apportioned Senate.
I don’t think First Past the Post is a crisis. I just feel like we can do better. New Zealand implemented proportional representation a study indicated that people felt the gov’t had more legitimacy. I think people feeling a stronger connection with their elected government is important to maintaining a strong, healthy democracy. The USA was recently downgraded to a “flawed democracy” in significant part due to an extended period of lack of faith in the democratic institutions. We aren’t there in Canada at all, but I would like a system where more people are more comfortable with the outcome.
Except this issue doesn’t get traction with the people. There have been commissions in both British Columbia and Ontario investigating it, and a referendum in BC, but no great public outcry for change. When you say that you would like a system where more people are comfortable with the outcome, I think you’re projecting your own views, and assume that a change will be viewed more positively generally.
There may well be those who oppose a change, and have a negative reaction to changes to the electoral system, so that from their perspective they are less comfortable with the new system than with FPTP? In other words, if there is a change, it could just be a wash? There may well be people who strongly favour first past the post who would be uncomfortable with a change - the lack of any strong public movement demanding a change certainly points that way, in my opinion.
Northern Piper, there was also a failed referendum in Ontario. Final tally was 63-37 against. I agree with you that there’s no guarantee reform would bring a greater overall confidence in our democracy. It could easily be a wash or worse.
Being dissatisfied because FPTP poorly reflects democratic will, is different then being dissatisfied with PR because it accurately reflects democratic will. The concerns of the former, while real, are not equal to the concerns of the latter.
For example, suffrage towards blacks/women/etc might still dissatisfy the majority of voters precisely for the reason that it makes our shared political system more legitimate.
That is your opinion. It is not necessarily shared by others, as shown by the lack of any popular support.
Do you really think that if the government proposed taking the vote away from women and blacks, it would be met by the same “meh” that the proposed change to the electoral system has met?
It says something that orcenio didn’t come up with a real world example. IMHO
As far as the Ontario referendum, you might be overstating it. We rejected the proposed alternative system not affirm the current. The proposal got pretty universal bad press.
While a great many Canadians just love the fact that the USA ranks below Canada because they fell from an 8.05 to a 7.98 (8.00 happens to be where a democracy goes from “full” to “flawed” on that scale) on a fairly arbitrary, subjective point system created by some guys who work for “The Economist” magazine, it is not at all obvious that this has anything to do with proportional representation or a lack thereof.