Canada shits on multiculturalism

Great Debates
1

Canadians have drawn a basic distinction between themselves and Americans by financially promoting the concept of “multiculturalism” as opposed to the American concept of “the melting pot”. This is with respect to how we handle the various peoples who settle in our two countries. Canadians revel in how we promote our ethnic differences while ethnic Americans supposedly assimulate and abandon their heritage.

Well several major events have raised serious doubts in my mind as two the validity of this relative concept. Canada’s huge ceremony of 100,000 people on Parliament Hill in sympathy to the WTC/Pentagon/Pennsylvanian attack was completely devoid of prayer. A token display of a silent Priest, Rabbi and Muslim cleric spoke volumes. These cultural leaders were to be seen but not heard. What a joke.
No doubt this was prompted by fears of offending someone. Well Canada, you pissed off a lot of people by wasting a lot of money promoting multoculturalism. Now when we put on a major national display of our character you suppress it. What a joke.

What a stark contrast to the American participation of its cultural/spiritual leaders at the National Cathedral and even more evident at the Prayer for America. America has bared her soul and she truly is the multicultural capital of the world.

I have put this in GD, because I expect some negative response from fellow Canadians.

2

I’m sorry, but . . .

What on Earth are you talking about?

Or, to put it in GD terms, gotta cite?

3

Won’t get a bit from me, grienspace. Seems like our government is always trying to be as non-offensive as possible.

Ahh well. My spleen is spent on the government topic anyhow. (seems more like a IMHO) Cite would be nice, give me something else to throw at em.

4

[cite](http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20010918/693585.html&qs=parliament hill memorial ceremony)

5

I don’t see how this logically extends to any discussion of multiculturalism. Your OP is just silly.

6

Rickjay, you can’t excise religion from culture and claim whatever you have left represents culture. For example to suggest that one can describe Palistinian culture without Islam is just ridiculous.

A lot of money has been spent to express various native and alien cultures. To subsequently silence the very real and underlying pillar of a culture is counter to the intent of the original expenditure of tax funds.

7

Whew… ok lets get this straight, Canada’s cerimony, unlike the United States and Great Britain, was more of a secular ceremony. How can you say it is against Multicuturalism because it did not parade out every faith for a service? How many other events in Ottawa had multi faith segments in them?

In Canada it is usually the norm to not show any religion so you don’t accidentally offend or omit anyone.

Of course the OP smacks of another agenda

8

Thanks for the link, grienspace.

All I can say is “Hooray for Canada.”

9

Pray tell us what this other agenda is, and the relevance of your comment.

10

While I grant a lot of historical validity to your first sentence, I have to admit that as an atheist it makes me twitch :wink: .

Your second sentence has some validity as well, but I will point out that there are Christian Palestinians. And in general they tend to be just as anti-Israel as most of their Muslim brethren. The conflict over there is not inherently ( or even primarily ) religious. It’s territorial. Not that you said different ( or even brought it up at all ), but I felt compelled to mention it :wink: .

  • Tamerlane
11

grienspace, I think you have somehow missed the demise of the American “melting pot”.

While we may not quite match the fervor of Canadians in embracing “diversity” and “multiculturalism”, I’m sure that we’ve been glorying in our differences for nearly as long as Canada has.

12

You’re going to have to explain this a bit to me: because the representative clerics didn’t publicly pray to the crowd, Canada shits on multiculturalism?

That’s a huge leap, and this line:

doesn’t explain it because it suggests that any public event must have a variety of prayer to represent Canadian multiculturalism (which is bogus). It also suggests that the ceremony on Parliament Hill was designed to foster or represent multiculturalism, which I don’t think it was.

13

clerics do not “pray to the crowd”. They pray to their God. Memorials/funerals ** traditionally** have always involved prayer. This is common in many cultures. This was no time to hide your traditions/culture. This was a time to seek unity. The positive approach of inclusion used in America validated many sub cultures including Islamic cultures which naturally would be somewhat defensive under these present day circumstances. A complete ommission as in Canada magnified by the appearance of clerics told to keep their mouths shut only suggests a nation so weak as to fear their speech or prayer would be more divisive than unifying. There certainly is unity in silence!

Your suggestion is bogus. A silenced row of clerics at a memorial is contrary to the expression of multiculturalism. A lack of prayer at a football game is not.

I didn’t suggest that at all. In fact I suggested the government deliberately retreated from multiculturalism. Its cute to watch the natives dance, but we don’t want to hear them pray. Very shallow concept of culture.

14

I sure wouldn’t mind having less prayer on CNN.

15

Wow. What an astonishingly petty nitpick. And here I always thought that priest worshipped the parish.

I’m still not following you. The article you cited speaks more to the absence of religion in Canadian public life in general than to some embarassment about multiculturalism.

16

Who’s “Excising” anything? Where? What is the government doing to excise religion or culture from anyone’s life?

So the memorial service didn’t have a prayer - I fail to see how that “Excises” religion or culture from anything. They don’t have prayers at hockey games. My office doesn’t hold a prayer when we start the day. Are we “excising” religion from our lives? Every place I’ve ever worked in always had a moment of silence on Nov. 11 and we never had a prayer. What’s being lost?

I’m not separating religion and culture, I’m saying your initial assertion is flat-out crazy. When you say weirdass things like “A silenced row of clerics at a memorial is contrary to the expression of multiculturalism,” you’re just babbling. That makes no sense at all.

17

Okay, I see we have another practioner of the strawman tactic for debate. I said “excise religion from culture”, not excise religion or culture from anyone’s life. You can not debate intelligently if you can’t comprehend.

Once again, my previous comment.However to follow up on your assertion,I would suggest that the puplic display of silenced clerics at anofficial memorial is a dramatic departure from any previous memorial service.

"excising religion from our lives? Once again, your strawman to rebut. You can’t excise something if it never was there. You may be desparate for an argument, but at least be honest about it.

Your credibility . A moment of silence in the workplace can not be compared to the practice of an official memorial ceremony.

Well considering your argument here, I’m not surprised at all. Clearly you couldn’t understand what I said so naturally it is babbling to you. I do hope you can do better than this next time.

18

Fine. We can have public, multicultural, inclusive prayer sessions. There’s the key word: inclusive. After all, if you bring in a member of a particular religion to offer prayers on behalf of that religion, that risks excluding those who do not subscribe to that religion, since it transforms a public, secular observance by what is supposed to be a public, secular government into a religious ritual.

So, for every public memorial service, we will need a Roman Catholic priest, an Anglican priest, a UC minister, a Presbyterian minister, a Methodist minister, a Unitarian minister, a Greek Orthodox priest, a Russian Orthodox priest, a Coptic Rite priest, a Seventh-Day Adventist minister, a Mormon priest, an Orthodox rabbi, a Conservative rabbi, a Reform rabbi, a Sunni imam, a Shi’a imam, an Ismaili imam, a Jaina cleric, a Baha’i cleric, a Shinto priest, a Confucianist cleric, several flavours of Hindu clerics, a Japanese Buddhist cleric, a Tibetan Buddhist cleric, assorted other Buddhist clerics, an Inuk shaman, a Mohawk shaman, a Cree shaman, an Ojibway shaman, a Mi’kmaq shaman, a Malecite shaman, a Haida shaman, a Gardnerian Wiccan priest, an Alexandrian Wiccan priest, a Dianic Wiccan priestess, a Faerie Tradition Wiccan priestess, an Asatru priest, an ADF druid, several representatives of unorganized religions, an agnostic representative, an atheist representative, two turtle doves, and a partridge in a pear tree.

“Gah! Stop exaggerating, matt!” Well, just whom would you have me leave out? Are they not welcome to grieve with their country too?

Why don’t we just leave religion out of public affairs instead, so that we can focus on what’s important (the memorial) instead of what’s not really the point at the moment (the religion to which an individual citizen happens to belong or not to belong)?

As Johnny Hart (of all people) said on the separation of church and state, “Would you want to go to a church that was run by the state?”

19

There’s nothing like hostility for dodging demands that you support your argument.

You make it sound like they were bound and gagged, and were displayed against their will.

What’s bothering you? The absence of prayer? That says nothing about multiculturalism. The fact that the crowd wasn’t treated to a variety of prayers? It would be notable if a major denomination was excluded from speaking in favor of others, but there was no denomination so favored.

20

Well, Grienspace,

one traditional problem of “getting religious” is the decision of which religions get represented.

It’s probably unfair to just let a few speak. You have to give equal time to Wiccans, Scientologists, Devil Worshippers, and every darn nut in the can. This can take all day, and most of the night.

So down here in the US, state-sponsored groups can seldom get away with anything denominational. At least that’s the theory. I’m sure there’re exceptions, but there we are.
“You’re dead. You’re all dead.” - Frank Sinatra