Sweet lord, I just looked over the article closer. You’re crying about “up to” 600 prisoners getting vaccinated. A drop in the bucket.
I’m upset because this whole thing is real. I can personally see how dramatically it is affecting the people around me, friends and loved ones.
I don’t care if it’s one person, the point is it’s a another symbol of a government that is completely out of touch what’s going on in this country.
I have a close friend that’s a nurse. As is frequently reported in the paper, she is one of those that is “at the breaking point”. Much of their staff is sick she has been working extended shifts since before Christmas with no days off since early December.
Her hospital admin told them yesterday that Ontario is almost out of vaccines and their they will definitely not be vaccinated in this first wave. Admin “hopes” they will be able to get the vaccine when the next shipment arrive by the end of January. If not, the next hope is by the middle of the year.
In the meantime 600 people who could’ve been vaccinated will be risking their lives. No doubt, some of them will die. Please let them know they were a drop in the bucket.
Meanwhile I will pass on to my friend not to worry, but she too is only a drop in the bucket
As of this morning, Ontario has administered just over 52% of the vaccine stocks allocated by the feds. Her hospital admin is either misinformed or the province is not doing a good job positioning the vaccine where it needs to be.
Two family members are doctors that see patients in private practice and the hospital. One received the vaccine last week, one is scheduled for this week. One of those people has not really left the house in 9 months and is only seeing patients virtually. Should they be getting vaccinated before a high-risk prisoner that the feds have a duty of care over?
Health care providers really don’t need your misguided concerns here. Their job is to care for those of us who require it. IF THESE PRISONERS REALLY ARE at more risk of catching and suffering from Covid… Health care providers (of all people) should understand that the vunerable people get immediate care first.
Being prisoners (or even being evil bastards) shouldn’t factor into this calculation. They are people under our care. That’s all.
Her hospital admin is not misinformed. If you read my earlier post you will also see that nowhere in the Niagara region is anyone getting any vaccine until possibly late January. I feely admit the province is bungling this badly. No debate.
My point is the federal government has both vaccines and resources to administer them. Nevertheless, they are making a decision not go into areas and vaccinate frontline workers.
They could very easily say "Ontario bracket [or Manitoba or Quebec or wherever) is having issues vaccinating front line workers, we are going to send these vaccines to XXX which is in currently in crisis. They are choosing that they’d rather vaccinate prisoners instead. That is what I have an issue with.
So then you have a citation that indicates that “healthcare providers” have made this decision and agreed to de-prioritize front line workers, in favour of seniors in a highly controlled prison environment??? If so please share.
Everything that I have read suggests they are upset by it. And please read my posts, I’m not upset it’s prisoners.
It makes me very sad that you don’t seem to get the urgency of the situation. I can only assume you don’t know any front line workers who have been told to "hang in there, keep risking your lives maybe sometime in mid to late February.
I kinda think you’re digging pretty deep for scandal when you’re faulting a government for too much compassion for the clearly undeserving.
You want them to send the army into every province and take over them? Because I can guarantee you that the resources to vaccinate 600 prisoners are not the same resources required to vaccinate all the healthworkers in Canada.
So is the article lying?
Where are you seeing late January?
Interesting, I’ve reread my posts several times, and I can’t find anywhere where I even suggest the government sends in the army to take them over. Please have another look and see if you can find where I say that, but if not, it’s nice of you to use a straw man to try misrepresent my concerns. 
According to the local St Catharine’s paper (pay walled) it does not look like that is going to happen now. But they’re still “hopeful”
I was wondering what resources you imagine the Feds can bring to bear – not commenting on a specific proposal. Go ahead and tell me how you think the feds can mobilize a vaccine program.
Apparently they are getting a batch this coming week.
That great news, my friend has still not heard anything “official”, but we have our fingers crossed.
Maybe just shipping them to one of the many hospitals that has no vaccines yet and saying “here you go”. I really don’t think needs to be overly complicated.
Bottom line - I think the federal government using its limited supply of vaccines on prisoners instead of front line health care workers is wrong. You don’t.
Let’s agree to disagree.
That’s the problem though. You don’t think that it is overly complicated. Have you considered that there could be logistical complications? That it isn’t so easy to just go down to the vaccine warehouse, grab a box of vaccine and ship it. That’s why we leave the planning of such things to professionals who presumably know what they’re doing. This is not a case of Trudeau waking up one morning and saying “You know what, I’m going to vaccinate some prisoners.” The vaccination plan was developed by the National Advisory Committee on Immunization by the following:
Members: Dr. C Quach (Chair), Dr. S Deeks (Vice-Chair), Dr. J Bettinger, Dr. N Dayneka, Dr. P De Wals, Dr. E Dubé, Dr. V Dubey, Dr. S Gantt, Dr. R Harrison, Dr. K Hildebrand, Dr. K Klein, Dr. J Papenburg, Dr. C Rotstein, Dr. B Sander, Ms. S Smith, and Dr. S Wilson.
Liaison representatives: Dr. LM Bucci (Canadian Public Health Association), Dr. E Castillo (Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada), Dr. A Cohn (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, United States), Ms. L Dupuis (Canadian Nurses Association), Dr. J Emili (College of Family Physicians of Canada), Dr. D Fell (Canadian Association for Immunization Research and Evaluation), Dr. M Lavoie (Council of Chief Medical Officers of Health), Dr. D Moore (Canadian Paediatric Society), Dr. M Naus (Canadian Immunization Committee), and Dr. A Pham-Huy (Association of Medical Microbiology and Infectious Disease Canada).
Ex-officio representatives: Dr. D Danoff (Marketed Health Products Directorate, HC), Ms. E Henry (Centre for Immunization and Respiratory Infectious Diseases [CIRID], PHAC), Ms. M Lacroix (Public Health Ethics Consultative Group, PHAC), Ms. J Pennock (CIRID, PHAC), Dr. R Pless (Biologic and Radiopharmaceutical Drugs Directorate, Health Canada), Dr. G Poliquin (National Microbiology Laboratory, PHAC), Dr. V Beswick-Escanlar (National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces), and Dr. T Wong (First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada).
Maybe we should let them do their job. It is obviously frustrating and concerning when there is a group that has not been vaccinated, but it was never going to be the case that everybody at any particular priority level were going to be vaccinated all at the same time. Somebody was going to be first, and somebody is going to be last.
By the way, your earlier remark about not knowing any front-line workers. You really should stop making assumptions about other people as you are quite often going to end up being wrong, and this makes your arguments appear silly. I work with ER doctors, and pathologists on some research projects at a major hospital in Ontario. And while the research project I’m working on with them is not SARS-CoV-2 related (it is related to two projects, one one medical education and the other on precision medicine), of course, I get the opportunity to talk to them about it during meetings. People disagreeing with you is not necessarily out of ignorance or political bias.
It’s pretty hard to agree to disagree here and thereby accept your criticism as reasonable. Googling shows the feds have distributed about 550,000 doses. You think they should have shipped 551,200 and it’s horrible they didn’t.
This.
I was listening to talk radio last week where the taxi drivers are demanding early vaccinations. I can see this being a reasonable ask for Amazon drivers, transit riders, cleaning staff, plumbers, teachers, grocery workers, etc. On any distribution curve most of the people are lumped in the middle. I can spend a month figuring out the queue and assigning numbers, or I can just jab. I think we’re going to see this for the bulk of the population, and I’m ok with whatever the schedule is with the caveat that everyone is trying the best they can.
This is a limited resource at the moment and there will always be something constraining - vaccine, transport, staff, waiting arms. Smooth it out as much as you can, don’t waste viable vaccine, and get ‘er done.
It is still not entirely understood what the highest risk avenues of transmission are. Epidemiologists are still working on that, and will be working on that for years to come. The slightest mutation could alter the manner of transmission. Conflating factors of behaviour change that sort of thing too.
Health authorities are proceeding with their best guesses. We will remain in danger until enough vaccines have been given to drop the R number under 1. That is months away no matter who gets it first.
I guess that’s important to remember when you say:
Anyway…
It sounds like many of you know more front line workers than I do and they are totally cool with prisoners getting vaccinated before them. The few that I know are very upset. They haven’t been vaccinated and do not yet have dates. My sample is small, only Niagara, Alberta and BC.
BTW- I also find it outrageous that people who are in administration at many hospitals have received vaccines before all their front line staff have, but that’s not Trudeau’s fault, that’s on Ford (in Ontario at least).
I’m not sure why this is so complicated, it seems to me that front line workers who are risking their live should be first in line.
But NOT before front line workers!!
Again, please quite creating bullshit strawman arguments, it’s seriously beneath you guys. This has nothing to do with shipping 551K doses, it has nothing to do with taxi drivers etc. If you the only way you can make your point is by distorting mine it speaks volumes.
This is very simple: prisoners getting vaccinated before front line workers. I think it’s a big issue, you don’t.
If the fed’s came out and said “We’re vaccinating these 600 prisoners only because we can’t figure out anyway to get 60 doses of vaccine to 10 hospitals across Canada whose front line workers are in critical need.” I’d be pissed, but at least they tried and considered following their published guidelines.
But it’s not that. I suggested that you were thinking elderly prisoners should be back of the line and you act like I’m putting words in your mouth. But tell me, will you be outraged if old prisoners were ahead old non-convicts? Hard worker 50 yr old diabetics? Grocery store clerks? What place in the vaccine line is not a “symbol” of how out to lunch the feds are?
I left you a very reasonable polite reply to your original post on this subject and you want FULL attack snark mode. And you have a long history for anyone who doesn’t agree with your latest critique of Trudeau. If you had responded in any way resembling wanting a reasonable discussion, then I would not have said that. It was when you responded that I remembered it really pisses you off when people are not willing to immediately and fully agree with the latest Trudeau outrage. But as you said, anyway…
You must have missed:
You should contact them and explain how you know more than they do. I’m sure they’ll be very impressed.
I’m done dealing with your straw men.
Again, you make assumptions…
I’m not affiliated with any political party or ideology what-so-ever, unlike many posters here. I judge all politicians based on their actions, not on blind party affiliation.
Ford & Kenny have done some things right, but much has been an absolute foreseeable botched disaster. Haper did some things right and I absolutely hated some of what he did. Trudeau has done some things right and much has been a foreseeable botched disaster.
The fact that Trudeau downplayed the threat to Canada and deliberately did not shut the Canadian borders was a foreseeable botched disaster that has cost Canadian lives. The fact that Trudeau’s government has decided to vaccinate federal prisoners ahead of front line workers is also a terrible decision.