Perhaps consider shifting immigration from China from favouring millionaires to favouring regular people. That’d be a good start to my mind.
From the above Globe article:
….”While disinformation campaigns have the potential to affect the result in individual ridings – no small matter – the evidence that they actually have done so is far from conclusive. However unwelcome, foreign-based disinformation is but an eddy in the tide of disinformation that floods any election campaign, much of it produced by the contestants.
The interference that should concern us is not something that happens to Canadian democracy, but rather the kind that happens with the collaboration of certain of its domestic participants. The collaboration may be passive – winking at or acquiescing in foreign interference, rather than taking action against it. Or it may be active: taking orders, or receiving benefits, from foreign actors.
In the present crisis, we have been given plenty of evidence of both, thanks to a series of extraordinary intelligence leaks. That is not why we are in a crisis, however. We are in a crisis because it took those leaks to bring the matter to light: because the Prime Minister and others in his party and his government, reportedly presented with much of the same intelligence, chose to do nothing about it, and to keep both the interference and their own inactivity a secret.”
Just when you think the Fascist Convoy cannot get any worse, they’re now fighting among themselves as to whether pedophiles should be accepted within the group. These are the same people who want to “protect” kids from drag shows.
All the more reason the government is stupid to deflect and downplay the Chinese interference issue.
This is REALLY concerning, and the government saying “it’s racist to ask questions about this” or “don’t worry about it, we’re investigating behind closed doors” or “it’s the leaks that are the problem” (when a government is more concerned about leaks than what is leaked, you know there’s an issue) or “look, look over there, so and so met with some European asshole” is really, really not good on any level, no matter how bad the situation actually is.
I am somehow both sick and tired of Pierre Poilevre and his populist shit, and sick and tired of people telling me I should be frightened of him, which is what a lot of talking heads are trying to distract us with when the press tries to raise the election interference issue. (Sure beats Trudeau’s statement that it’s racist to ask about it.) I don’t give two fucks at three donuts about Pierre Poilevre right now; we are three years from an election and the Leader of the Opposition doesn’t matter until you’re way closer. Let him bray, whatever. This election interference matter is HUGE. It’s the biggest matter within our borders right now,. full stop. It has to be brought into the open and absolutely pulled apart piece by piece. If people lose faith in the electoral system, they lose faith in the constitutional backbone of the country.
And by the way, this is absolutely in no way equivalent to Trumpist complaining about the 2020 election. That complaining is based on basically no facts at all, not even anything in the way of reasonable suspicions. Not a scintilla of foul play is suspected by a sane and honest person. The problem in Canada IS REAL. There is active, real reason to believe that a hostile foreign government is actively interfering in our elections (and doing other incredibly shady shit, like openly blackmailing and intimidating Canadian citizens just because they’re of Chinese descent, and having agents of the Chinese state do this on our soil.) This is analogous not to the 2020 nonsense in the USA, but to the Russia-Trump collusion scandal of 2016 - except it seems as if it might actually be worse, if anything.
PP himself doesn’t scare me. I don’t think he would be a particularly good PM. I think his main talent it to criticize. He’s been the CPoC attack dog for awhile. He doesn’t strike me as somebody who would solve problems. Admittedly, Trudeau as of late has seemed pretty meh. It is almost like his heart isn’t in it anymore. I’d like to see him step down.
What does worry me about PP is who he would be beholden to. If he were saying that the convoy represents a dangerous ideology, and he doesn’t support them at all, then I would feel more comfortable with him as PM. I just don’t want to see the convoy gaining any semblance of legitimacy or political power.
I completely agree with respect to everything about the election interference. Trudeau has 100% botched the response. It is really disappointing.
Here’s a question. Do you think Liberal MP Han Dong is compromised by China? I ask because (after searching) it seems that Trudeau was deflecting public attacks to this MP. Do you think Trudeau was acting irresponsibly defending Dong like so? Do you fear that Trudeau was using Dong’s race to cover up for him?
I agree that Poilievre isn’t close to being relevant when comparing him to any current National policy issue of the day, the man is just the official opposition leader; …but on the other hand, the actions of our “government in waiting” are always somewhat relevant. Election interference should top, but the reason these convoy yahoos ever got news exposure was due to themselves (through their actions) and their fellow yahoo advocates in Parliament (including Poilievre who rode this issue into his current position). Poilievre rallies their cause for his own clout, not his detractors.
Election interference is a real thing that, in itself, makes it a non-equivalent issue to Trumpists’ complaints. However while getting China out of any and all parts of our electoral system should be the gold standard. China does involve itself through many covert and overt manners (propaganda, spying, tech espionage), however due to our free and open society it may be impossible to completely remove such actors from influencing our citizens except is the most grossest and ham-fisted of cases (infiltration, extortion, bribing).
The cost of doing business as a free and open democratic country is that compromised foreign government/private agents like China, facebook, google, Russia Today, etc have access to our population. That said, we should find and draw clear “do not cross” lines though, so that we have legal standing to crush any possible outrageous cases (if we do not already have them IANAL).
I’m finding I am in agreement with pretty much everything you wrote in your post. Strongly. Which, I think, says something.
I doubt it, but that was NOT the thrust of the questions.
The problem isn’t whether Dong is compromised by China, or that Trudeau is. The problem is they could be, or Dong’s election could be even if Dong himself wasn’t personally the slightest bit aware of it, or any election could be, and the government is pooh-poohing what appears to be a monstrous problem. If the Liberal Party’s leadership deliberately shrugged off knowing the Chinese government was influencing elections because they figured it wouldn’t hurt them, that would quite honestly be the worst scandal in Canadian politics in my lifetime, even if not one single politician is actually actively doing China’s bidding.
The very appearance of a conflict of interest is bad enough.
Its important to know that this was the thrust of the discourse and the Liberals responses.
A Global News report cited anonymous sources within CSIS saying that Dong “was helped” by the Chinese consulate during the 2019 election and that CSIS urged senior Liberal Party staff to rescind his nomination.
This is the context of Trudeau responses. They are “circling the wagons” in defence of international dual-loyalty accusations toward MP Han Dong who now has to contend with allegations that his election race was affected by China’s thumb and that this taints his current position, participation, and political eligibility.
Again, saying Dong’s election was helped by China does not mean Dong is a traitor. I haven’t actually heard Dong’s (or any other candidate’s) loyalty to Canada questioned by ANY professional media source. According to source, as many as 10-12 ridings were targeted and it’s not even necessarily the case all were Liberal candidates.
Immediately harping on “it’s racist to question us on this” is about as obvious a deflection as one can imagine. This is an issue that deserves extreme scrutiny. Trudeau’s responses are simply not responses to a wave of racism from the reporters asking his these questions. That just isn’t happening.
Han Dong is if anything being treated very fairly, and the media is doing a terrific job of NOT just heaving unfair accusations at the man about his loyalty to Canada. The questions being asked are about China interfering in our elections and the government covering it up or not responding appropriately to it. Those are questions that must be asked and answered.
Does Dong have to " that his election race was affected by China’s thumb and that this taints his current position, participation, and political eligibility"? Well, I’m not sure what you mean by “political eligibility,” but… yeah, he has to contend with that. If the guy is 100% loyal to Canada, he has to contend with that anyway.
It sucks pretty bad if Dong and the other candidates affected are honest men and women whose elections were secretly helped by China solely because of the perception they’d help PRC interests, and they weren’t participants in anything untoward. That obviously is terrible for them.
But… so what? You still have to uncover the entire thing and find out the truth and make as much public as possible. I don’t care if it’s embarrassing for Han Dong, or any candidate no matter their ethnic background. Hiding the truth here is just amazingly, incredibly bad for our constitutional democracy.
We now live in a world where large powers are apparently shameless in their willingness to interfere in the elections of other countries. Canada must act accordingly; that is just the reality now. If we want our democracy to retain the legitimacy in the eyes of the people that it needs to survive, we need to act now because this isn’t gonna get easier. Part of retaining that legitimacy is openness and transparency, not “don’t ask questions.” This is not a partisan issue.
I would again ask how folks here would react if the United States was doing what China is doing. I suspect there would be universal outrage and demands that something be done. If Jane Smith, born in the USA but now MP for Upper Somewhere - Rubber Boot Junction, was to be embarrassed by this scandal because it appeared the CIA was surreptitiously helping her election, would anyone give a shit? I sure hope not.
Coyne is right that a mere public inquiry, hamstrung by claims of security, is less important than preventing future problems, ensuring legitimacy, reassuring Canadians and identifying passive and active influencers - even if investigation is limited to the judiciary or vetted representatives…
If CSIS is helped by a registry of foreign agents I see few good reasons for not pursuing one (though its efficacy may be suboptimal, or legal rationale limited, as stated above). Influence is, in this era, inevitable. I do not see this as the scandal of the century. But actions need to be taken, and the Liberals would be foolish not to do much more, even for their own sake. No one thinks this is why they won. But no one wants to think that of future winners.
Well I am only just catching up on this news story but while researching it I did read this from the Toronto Sun.
His voting record on other issues related to China shows that he will vote on motions about China with the Liberals if the Liberal Party is voting against denouncing China but has been absent for several votes that could embarrass Beijing.
Isn’t that worth questioning?
To Trudeau the answer is no, to ask the question is racist, even though several MPs of Chinese descent have voted to condemn Beijing, including Liberal MPs. Dong, however, left the room.
Now, Dong is under heavy national scrutiny. The Global News article claims to have three separate sources in CSIS assuring us that there exists a report saying Dong was aided by China and that Dong had some level of awareness of this. These are questions that are being asked and that Dong will need to weather (rightly or wrongly).
I can understand why Trudeau is defending his MP (he did sign off on Dong like any other candidate); the allegations, alone, are pretty damaging of “his guy”. I also understand why his detractors are outright pillorying Trudeau for his (self serving) stubborn dismissals and handwaves.
In the end this is an issue that Canadians will need to be see handled openly and thoroughly. That is just how our society deals with important matters relating to our democracy and law.
According to source, as many as 10-12 ridings were targeted and it’s not even necessarily the case all were Liberal candidates.
I believe the Global report said it was a mix of Conservative and Liberal candidates, but I’ll read it again and find a quote. Also I’m sure the interference issue raised included influencing at the riding association level too, where citizenship isn’t a barrier to participation (unlike in the general federal/provincial elections).
My recollection was 9 Liberals, 2 CPC.
It’s entirely possible China is targeting people with relatives back in China they can threaten. It’s Chinese law that even Chinese living abroad can be charged, convicted, and punished for refusing to help China, and targeting relatives is absolutely okay with a dictatorship. It’s a level of hideous evil we struggle to comprehend here.
This is the part I don’t get in these complaints: Even if we knew with absolute certainty that this kind of influence was taking place, and actually had a significant effect on the election, exactly what could we do about it?
I mean, we all get those spam calls targeting Chinese immigrants to Canada, right? Are we just going to block all phone calls from China? Because that’s all it would take for the Chinese government to intimidate a Chinese immigrant in Canada. Call them up, and say, “It’d be a shame if you voting for Party X meant your grandmother got sent to prison.” So long as that’s a credible threat, that’s all it would really take.
Perhaps. However, it has been claimed a certain sinophilic country operated three police stations on Canadian soil. While not in a position to evaluate these claims, this seems outrageous and is hardly the same as telecommunication.
We can’t do anything about the laws of the PRC, but direct actions taken in Canada, like funding candidates, inappropriate election spending, influence peddling and the like are all against OUR laws, and thinks like running secret police stations in Canada need to be stamped out.
On top of that, what’s the government doing, actively, to support Chinese Canadians and help them not be intimidated by the PRC? There are at least a MILLION Canadian citizens of Chinese descent. They’re as Canadian as Wayne Gretzky and deserve to have the feds taking this heat for them. If a foreign government is threatening some of them, and implicity most or all of them, this should be a top line priority for the federal government. More intelligence spending, public information and education campaigns, and the clearest, most open possible messaging saying “This is happening, we know about it, we are stomping on it like roaches, and we are behind you 100 percent because defending Canadians is our job.” The efforts of the PRC to influence our government and intimidate our citizens are helped by the government trying to minimize this and sweep in under the rug, and would be significantly impeded by our government being extremely open and frank about it.
That’s pretty funny (PP being the ‘honourable friend’ in question).
But seriously, I’m glad to see this happen, but I do agree with PP and Singh. This needs to be transparent. While I don’t think this is having a huge effect on our elections, the mere appearance of illegitimacy is a big issue. We need to be able to trust the electoral process.
As do I. As a certified leftie, my rule is often “what would my reaction be if this action was being done by the Conservative Party of Canada?”
And if the shoe was indeed on the other foot, I would be unimpressed with the government’s responses. More needs to be done. Much more. I like RickJay’s approach of supporting all Canadians of Chinese descent, and letting them know that
“This is happening, we know about it, we are stomping on it like roaches, and we are behind you 100 percent because defending Canadians is our job.”
But what concrete actions should they take? A list of foreign agents is a start. Police departments don’t have the resources to address this well, if they had the will. I think there needs to be a governmental body dealing specifically with bullying, harassment and cybersecurity as these problems seem to be increasing and do affect business, well-being and social lives. Penalties for these actions should be increased.
Another solid column. I don’t think this is a massive scandal. But real actions should be taken to ensure future election legitimacy.
Excerpt from source (below):
Through it all, [Trudeau] clung grimly to the [process] unveiled in his Monday press conference: a review by NSICOP, another by the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency (NSIRA), all overseen by the hastily devised and hazily mandated office of “Independent Special Rapporteur.” As for himself, he told reporters, “I know that no matter what I say, Canadians continue to have questions about what we did and what we didn’t.”
Well, no. The statement implies a kind of petulance on the part of Canadians, as if it were no use answering anyone’s questions because they wouldn’t believe him. But how will he know unless he tries?
The elaborate, multilayered process Justin Trudeau has put in place is meant to suggest the whole thing is some sort of bottomless well, shrouded in mystery – something that will take, oh, at least until after the next election to piece together. But the Prime Minister could clear up the most important questions raised by this affair – what did he know, what did his aides know, and what did Liberal Party officials know about China’s efforts to throw the last two elections their way; when did they know it; and what did they do about it – in a single day. All he has to do is start answering them.