I think Quebec is the reason Canada is Canada. Without Quebec, what would we be?
Montreal is a wonderful city. So is Quebec City. I’ve been to both many times and never once met a single person who resented or was annoyed that I don’t speak French.
I would be saddened if the people of Quebec voted for separation. I don’t think it will happen, though.
We have hobbled along together for a long time, like a long-married couple who bicker and squabble but really, underneath it all, we do love each other. is sentimental
There is no doubt that the “power base” of Canadian politics is shifting westward, though. This is probably very hard on the people who have become used to Ontario being the centre of the Universe. Once, the Maritimes were wealthy and powerful. Times change.
I agree that the low turnout in the Quebec election could very well have been “election fatigue” and being fed up with the current mess in Ottawa. On the other hand, I would like to know if the turnout was as low outside Montreal and Quebec City.
But the dancer/marriage image is missing a critical part. There are parts of “Canada” that came from Quebec and parts of Quebec that came from “Canada”.
I like thinking of it as 2 trees that have merged together and branched apart and formed a new thing. Take one away and the other withers.
Heh, I think that’s more of a joke than anything else. Can we also annex South Florida and Acapulco, Mexico?
I probably know more things about Canada than you do. :rolleyes: We’re talking about opinions here. Do you think featherlou, to give an example, really feels the “presence” of Quebec in Canada in her daily life? Do you think Quebec really influences in any meaningful way the nature of “her” Canada?
Sure, Canada in 1840 was made of people of British origin (mostly in Upper Canada, now Ontario) and of French origin (in Lower Canada, now Quebec). Canada was the interaction of these two groups of different ethnic origin, speaking different languages, and trying to coexist peacefully and create their place in the world as a new nation. But you’ve noticed that the country has changed a lot since then. So what is the nature of Canada today?
Maybe, but when even I thought about cancelling my vote or not showing up, I think it’s safe to say that there isn’t currently any goal around which we can project our energies as a nation. When Jean Charest is the most inspiring of the major party leaders, there’s a problem.
Can you expand on this? I believe you’re right, but I’m curious about which kind of misconceptions you held and have encountered.
I think the Charter, which was driven by a French Canadian, from Quebec has dramatically shaped the nature of the country. While I don’t agree with Trudeau and have reservations about a fixed Charter, the simple fact of the matter is that for modern Canadians the Charter defines their country to a remarkable extent. A creation born from a combined Quebec/“Canada” worldview.
The manner in which Jean Sauvé handled the appointment to Governor General and shaped the public perception of that office, the way in which western Canada emerged out of the 20/30s resonates on down through the years. The continuing dialogue on how to “accommodate Quebec” drives how we accommodate new immigrants and shapes the multicultural worldview many Canadians share.
Yes, after Meech Lake & Charlottetown was when the resurgence occured. My personal opinion (obviously, YMMV) is that without Bouchard’s dramatic subsequent defection out of the Progressive Conservative party and his ability to stand as a figurehead for the resentment that the failure of the two accords and what this supposedly meant with respect to how Canadians outside Quebec felt about Quebec, we would not have seen such a large resurgence in the independence movement. I was born and raised in Quebec and was an adult voter in Quebec when both these accords were rejected - I was interacting with federalists and separatists both at the time, and got to see the response develop. There will be other perspectives on this, but I do think Bouchard’s public response after Meech Lake “failed” had a substantial impact on the reactions of other Quebecers with separatist leanings/views.
The Canadopers in this thread that have their locations listed seem to be mostly from Ontario and Quebec, so let me tell you how I feel as someone who has never been east of Saskatoon.
Central and Eastern Canada have looked down on my side of the country for a long time. We’re the hicks, the uneducated masses. But now, the balance of the economy has changed so that unemployed people from Ontario and the Maritimes are coming here to work, and we’re expected to ride out the financial difficulties.
Forget Quebec separatism, it’s the West that needs to be watched. There’s definitely an attitude here of wanting to separate. The West is tired of being ignored and is riding high on oil and resources.
Personally, I think Quebecers are a bit snobby, but hey, they live almost in an entirely different world than I do. It’s like asking a Nebraskan about the old prestigious parts of Massachusetts - they’re two entirely different worlds.
I love Quebec and consider it as much part of the country as any other province. Quebec is certainly not a nuisance - in fact, I consider Canada’s continued, peaceful, reasonable discussions about matters of Quebec sovereignty to be quintessentially Canadian.
To be honest, the question strikes me as sort of bizarre. It’s like asking an American if they have problems with Florida because of continuing voter issues, or California because of all the actors.
Further, the Quebecois I have met (and I’ve met many) have been just like every other group of Canadians - some are great, some are jerks. Some want to separate, some don’t, some don’t give a shit.
Finally, I really must step up her and announce myself as a Albertan. I live in Calgary. You will certainly see obnoxious, stupid statements from people in this part of the Country. Typically those statements come from ignorance - I’ve ever met anyone who’s lived in Quebec (and now lives in the West) or travelled extensively in Quebec who makes that type of statement. I must object to being painted with the same brush as those people. I am from the West but I think about Quebec often. I have friends in Quebec. I travel to Quebec. The Mr. and I may honeymoon in Quebec. I am not the only ‘Westerner’ who feels this way. Just because the ignorant may shout louder, it doesn’t make their views the majority.
I’m not sure, to be honest, that the effort I’d expend on a full answer would be worth it, because every indication in the last spate of Canada-related threads is that anyone outside Quebec professing an affinity for Quebec - or, indeed, any opinion of any kind regarding it or anything to do with it - for it is told they’re wrong. I could certainly explain why I feel Quebec is a central part of Canada’s identity, but I’m not going to go to the trouble just to have someone nitpick my feelings about my country.
Yep, you’re right about that - Quebec has no influence on my life or my experience as a Canadian. I don’t mind that they exist; I don’t feel Quebec or bilingualism has much of anything at all to do with my experience as a Canadian or my identity as a Canadian. I don’t see them as a “perpetual nuisance” but I do wish they’d make up their minds about separation; an analogy I could make for that is of a couple who are squabbling, and one member of the couple keeps threatening to leave, so the other member is forced to appease them to get them to stay. I have no interest in appeasing Quebec. They’re a province in Canada just like Nova Scotia or Saskatchewan, and should be treated no better and no worse. I have as much interest in them staying in confederacy as any other province, but I’m not willing to give them anything they want to get them to stay, either.
Quebec was also a founding nation of Canada, true enough, but what has Quebec done for Canada lately? There is a definite perception in the West that Quebec has a very large sense of entitlement, with no real sense of obligation or duty to be a contributing member of the Canadian confederacy (as personified by the Bloc Quebecois, whose official platform is “What’s In It For Quebec?”). Maybe that’s just sour grapes because there is no Alberta Party whose sole reason for existing as a federal party is to get whatever they can get for Alberta and to hell with the rest of the country.
Another Albertan here. There was a lot of separatist sentiment here a couple of decades ago, but that has really faded, primarily because of the strong economy and the fact that we have a Prime Minister we like and we feel that we’re getting decent representation.
But I can see storm clouds brewing, because the impression I get is that there is increasing hostility towards Alberta in the East, because we’re wealthy and the east is hurting. All the left-wing parties have completely destroyed their support west of Manitoba by very openly talking about programs which are designed to transfer wealth from Alberta to the east, or to simply damage Alberta for ideological reasons (i.e. Layton’s claim that he wanted to freeze further oil sands development).
During the English language debate, when Duceppe started ranting about how the west needed to be taxed, it really set my teeth on edge. He actually said, “This would be MONEY for US. Money for Quebec! Money!” He was very blatant about his belief that good Canadian government policy should involve taking money from Alberta and giving it to Quebec.
If the government falls, and the unholy triumvirate take over and actually start imposing taxes thinly disguised as a transfer of wealth from the west to the east, you’re going to see a real revolt. And this time, Saskatchewan will be on board with Alberta, and probably BC as well. Not that I think we’d separate, but tensions will certainly rise and you could see some real hardball politics.
I can’t argue with Sam - any politician in Ottawa who thinks Alberta and Saskatchewan will roll over for unfair policies and taxation now are kidding themselves. In spite of my extreme hatred of Ralph Klein, I find myself almost wishing that he was Premier of Alberta in case Iggy and Layton get big ideas about how they like our money and we should give it to them (I mean, more than we already send east). I don’t see separation on the table, either, but we will not willingly bankrupt ourselves for Ottawa again.
I am often a little irked by the Quebec bashing that goes on “out West” - and I live here. (BC) Now, if you want to bash Ontario - specifically Toronto, especially Bay Street, I might bash along with you. But maybe not, either. At any rate, I think it is Quebec and the French reality that makes Canada what it is. I am foolishly proud of cornflakes boxes in two languages, and enjoy trying to read the infinitesimally eensy printing on aspirin bottles and then realizing, “Hey! This is the French side.” Well, not really. But I do like it, the bilingual thing. I don’t speak French but I read it a little bit, thanks to cereal boxes.
Canada is changing. Not only are wealth and power moving westward, the population is changing rapidly due to immigration, chiefly from India and China. This makes some people angry. “They’re taking over!!!”
Yeah, they probably are. By the time my grandsons are grandfathers, they will be in the minority.
It’s always hard to live through change. You know, the old Chinese curse is supposed to be “may you live in interesting times”.
Me too. My wife and I would be culturally very comfortable with Canada, but the weather there is just too cold for her. However, if there were some Caribbean Islands that were part of Canada, moving there would seem a very attractive option, IMHO…
While the values expressed in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms did have an impact on Canada, many Canadians also have strong reservations about them. The Charter’s emphasis on individual rights is opposed by many in Quebec who consider the recognition of our collective rights as a French-language people in North America important for our future. (I believe this is in large part what is meant when some Quebecers say they are “against multiculturalism”.) At the same time, the Charter’s recognition of a bilingual Canada is opposed by many, in Western Canada for example.
How did Jeanne Sauvé handle her appointment as Governor General and shape the public perception of the office? I was quite young at the time and I don’t remember her much.
Maybe. I think what you mean is that Bouchard is a much more charismatic leader than Jacques Parizeau, and more apt at persuading people. I was a kid at the time so I’ll defer to your experience.
Now that’s one I’ve never heard. Snobby? Heh, the French think (or used to, anyway) that we’re some sort of country hicks, so I believe I’ll actually give you my thanks.
RickJay, I know we’ve disagreed rather strongly in these recent threads, but I want to tell you that I have the greatest respect for you and for your opinions. Just because I don’t agree with them and may dispute them, doesn’t mean I think they’re “wrong”.
I do find it important to point out that perceptions about the nature of Canada or any other concept can vary strongly from person to person. Just because you, or I, think something is a defining characteristic of Canada, doesn’t mean everyone (or even most Canadians) will agree.
I didn’t watch the English-language federal leaders’ debate, but is there a transcript somewhere? Because to me this doesn’t sound like something Duceppe would have actually said.
Some Newfoundlanders have real and considered opinions about independence from Canada. They point to Iceland as a model of what NL could have been like, arguing that local management of the fishery would have avoided collapse. I haven’t been east in 4 months, so I don’t know if this argument comes up now that Iceland is having trouble.
The vast majority of Newfoundlanders bitch about Canada when things aren’t going well politically, or their cultural heritage is insulted, or when some Ontarian is rude to them. Pretty much the same way Southrons complain about d*mn Yankees.
