Canadians are so easy-going, politically speaking, that it’s hard to imagne them having any major crisis generally. The last problem they had was with the near-miss Quebec votes (except it didn’t) for independance.
So, in the interest of asking Canda dopers, do you have a problem with Quebec or its behavior, politically. DO you mind that they exist, exist as perpetual nuisance, or that the Quebecois don’t seem to be able to make up their minds and always split the fence over independance? Tell me, oh Frozen Ones.
You make it sounds like Quebec is some monolithic thing appended to a “Canada proper” - which has no basis in fact.
The legislative acts brought into force allowing New France colonists to maintain their own legal code, language and religion in the late 18h century set the tone for the following 200 hundred years of Canadian evolution. Lower Canada (then Quebec) working with the other colonies managed to craft a continent spanning nation that maintained relative peace between two linguistic groups that had historically gone at it hammer and tongs.
The province has provided multiple leaders of business, government and culture that have deeply impacted the entire country. In short Canada wouldn’t be Canada without Quebec.
As for the indecisiveness you’re attributing to an entire province, it is misplaced. There are multiple groups within Quebec society that have multiple interests and agendas. Couple the normal inertia people have with respect to change to the various kinds of separation presented (full break, sovereignty-association, nation within a nation o staunch federalist) and it’s rather natural that you get split views to independence.
So in short I have problems with people wanting to disengage Quebec from Canada but not with “Quebec”.
You’ve gone off in the wrong direciton. I know all about Quebec, and for the purposes of this thread, do not care. Quebec is not what I’m asking about.
I’m asking about your opinions of Quebec. Assuming you are Canadian.
Ah. Well then, Quebec is an integral piece of Canada and therefore is not a “perpetual nuisance”. Nor do I dislike the fact that we have a continuing conversations about Quebec within Canada, it’s part of what made Canada what it is today.
But I do dislike addressing an entire province as a single object with a few sentences though.
Quebec is an awfully big place with a lot of people in it. It’s kind of hard to say what you “think” of a word that encompasses such a huge, variant place. You could talk about the people, the government, its geographic features, its culture, its politics, the frustration of finding Autoroute 20 becomes a city street for a spell in Montreal.
Do I have a problem with Quebec? Gosh, no, it’s a part of my country and I’m glad it is. Is separatism a nuisance? Yes, it is, but it’s a nuisance in large part because I feel Quebec is such a central part of Canada, and to divide it from the rest of Canada would be horrible for both.
I think Quebec is a valuable part of Canada and would be very unhappy should some catastrophe destroy the province (even ignoring the fact that this would involve the deaths of my parents and sibling, many friends, etc). Certainly not a nuisance.
I don’t agree with the desire of many Quebecers for sovereignity-association or whatever it’s currently being called, and was quite upset when Lucien Bouchard resurrected the whole movement. I think there will continue to be a natural feeling that Quebec “could’ve, should’ve” been an independent nation but this’ll continue to be a battle between emotion and reason (Quebec benefits greatly from being part of Canada, even if it has to put up with irritations in the process). Nor are Quebecers alone in finding the compromises involved in being part of Canada frustrating; many Albertans periodically make noises about how the West should bail out of Confederation, Ontarians used to complain about how much of their revenue went to support the “have-not” provinces, etc.
If we stop having “conversations” with Quebec over its being part of Canada, then I would worry.
It does? Where? There was a time when there were stoplights on highway 20 (at Woodland and Morgan) but after enough bodies had piled up, they made them into overpasses. The “city street” portion you describe is more accurately attributed to Ile Perot, off the southwest coast of the island of Montreal.
If it bugs you that much, I suggest you take Highway 40, then cut south to 20 at Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue. Exit 41, and the connecting road (Boulevard des Ancienes Combattants) only has a few stopsigns on it, plus the traffic light when you get back on the 20.
On a lark, 1971, having a few days of before school I drove east from southern Ontario intending to dip my feet into the Atlantic ocean. I was in Montreal at night and for some inexplicable reason, trying to cross the St Lawrence, following directions, I kept going in circles so I just headed north and then east to cross at Trois Rivieres. But it was this stretch where I encountered monolingual Quebeckers who I seemed to have been pissed off because I couldn’t speak French. Left a bad taste in my mouth.
However I’ve known many French Canadians who just aren’t like that. Even a neighbour who once lived with the infamous separatist Paul Rose.
All in all, I don’t want Quebec to separate. I’ll wait until the older generation of bigots and xenophobes fade away due to immigration and well, the fact that staying in Canada just makes a hell of a lot of sense.
Are you sure? How about you tell us what you know?
I know I’ve asked a similar question in a different thread, but can you tell me how, in your view, Quebec is such a central part of Canada? (I don’t exactly disagree, by the way, but I’m sure that to a large number of Canadians, the presence or absence of Quebec as a part of their country doesn’t even register.)
Personally I wouldn’t care.
Uh, what’s Bouchard got to do with it? The independence movement has been active since at least the early 60s. It reached a low point in popular support during the 80s, when René Lévesque’s government hit its wall (after introducing many much needed reforms) and when Brian Mulroney was elected prime minister of Canada with a platform of making the constitution acceptable to Quebec and to some other provinces. It saw a resurgence when the Meech Lake and Charlottetown accords were defeated. I’m sure you cannot blame Bouchard for this. The movement has reached another low point today, probably because of fatigue and because it seems more and more (even to supporters) like an unreachable pipe dream.
Quebecers aren’t really unhappy in Canada (even if we may not exactly see it as “our” country), and breaking up Canada doesn’t seem like a necessary step. Especially in times of economic crisis, especially in times of globalization, especially when Canada and the world are realigning.
What’s more worrisome, though, is that with the death of this dream comes the death of many of our hopes. Why was the turnout in Monday’s election close to 57%? Because Quebecers don’t expect anything anymore from their governments; we don’t have anyone to look up to. Maybe Alberta really is the future of Canada while we’re its past. Maybe a new inspiring figure will appear someday. Myself, I still want to build this country, but I think it’s possible to do it inside of Canada.
I guess you must have screamed at them; everybody knows that non-English speakers understand it when you speak LOUD. Eh, I don’t know; it’s frustrating not to be able to understand what others are saying or not to be understood by them. That’s probably what happened.
Why are you under the impression that proponents of independence are mostly “the older generation of bigots and xenophobes”? Many English Canadians seem to think this, but I think it’s because it’s what they want to think. Older Quebecers grew up when they were still part of “Ye Olde French-Canadian Race”, and most of them couldn’t care less about independence. You’ll still find the most convinced separatists on college campuses today.
Don’t Newfoundlanders have a stronger sense of “not really being Canadian” & desire to be a separate country again? They were outside of Canada more recently.
Maybe, or maybe it’s just because after last year’s provincial elections, this year’s federal elections, and the whole fiasco going on right now in Ottawa, people are just sick of elections and politics?
I think many people outside Quebec have incredibly skewed views of what political and cultural life actually is like in this province. I certainly did before I moved here, despite being partially educated in French immersion and having parents who got married in Quebec and longed to return (not to mention actually living in Quebec for a year in my early childhood).
I see it as a strength, the fact that we’re still talking, and will no doubt talk for very much longer, about Quebec’s place in Confederation. Fluidity, debate, dissent, and flexibility are healthy in a democratic society, not unhealthy; the desire to nail everything down once and for all, right now, rather than letting a common understanding grow organically, is kind of infantilizing. Regardless of how it may feel as things get hectic, we have a long history of dealing with one another in a civilized, democratic manner, and I feel positive that it will always continue that way regardless of what the people of Quebec decide.
Eh, I don’t know; it’s frustrating not to be able to understand what others are saying or not to be understood by them. That’s probably what happened.