I ran across this item while reading an article about why we should not have
socialized medicine here in the USA. I found it so unbelievable that I just had to
reserch it to see if was true. This poor woman waited SIX years for a knee
replacement only to have it become infected. After an EIGHT day wait for a
hospital bed, the infection had become so bad that her leg was amputated.
Here are more details:
I know there is a doctor shortage in Canada, but a six-year wait?! And eight days
before you can get into a hospital to treat a serious, life-changing infection?!
I would think she would have been moved to the top of the list after waiting only a
fraction of that amount of time.
Can any of Canadians of the Straight Dope tell me how the heck this could happen?
(Let’s not discuss the pros and cons of socialized medicine in this thread. I just want to know how this happened. It’s just so unbelievable.)
In any system with the hundreds of thousands, even millions of “transactions”, there’s going to be some number of errors. Even the ridiculous like this.
Still preferable to a procedure being denied so someone can earn a bonus or stock dividends being at stake.
I understand that Canadian health care is administered at the province, not
national level. Would this prevent her from seeking treatment from another
province where the wait time may be less?
Part of the problem, as this article explains, is a massive backlog in elective and other surgeries due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
However, trying to spin this phenomenon as a fundamental shortcoming of socialized medicine in general appears to be bullshit. Plenty of other countries with socialized healthcare systems have much less problem with surgery delays than Canada does.
There might be a 4-6 month wait period you need to live in a province before you are allowed to apply for a health card in that province… But yeah, she could’ve moved provinces and got put on THEIR wait list instead (even with an out of province health card, there are inter-provincial agreements of payment so she would’ve been assured treatment no matter what).
Usually the chronology is the other way around; countries with a private system come to have a free, public system. The private system survives (at least to some extent) for a variety of reasons:
Sometimes the public system does not provide comprehensive cover or, at least, does not do so intially; a limited system is introduced which is then extended
Sometimes government policy encourages or incentivises the persistence of a private system (e.g. by offering tax credits for health insurance); the public system costs less if not everyone avails of it.
Sometimes the private system persists because there are those (e.g. nonresidents) who cannot avail of the public system but still want to come to the country to take advantage of the medical expertise/experience that it can offer.
And, of course, sometimes more than one of these factors operates.
I’m not aware of any province with a 6 month waiting time to register. In Ontario there is no wait time.
Yes, health care is rationed here. I had a six month wait for a shoulder MRI, I jumped the queue by going across the border to Buffalo and paid cash to have it done.
While the outcome is horrible, this is not common. I know many people that have had joint replacements that haven’t had post-surgical complications.
This part sounds strange. They began a procedure at HSC, transferred her to Concordia to be seen by some specialist, she was supposed to be stitched up back at HSC the same day, but now they suddenly have no room for her. So she stays a week at Concordia with an open wound. Sounds like really bad planning.
From TA: "In late November, a surgeon at Winnipeg’s Health Sciences Centre began removing dead tissue from her right knee, with the intention of stitching her up later that day after she was seen by an orthopedic surgeon at Concordia Hospital.
She was sent to Concordia, but couldn’t be transferred back to HSC because there wasn’t a bed available for the specialist to finish the procedure. Instead, she spent eight days languishing at Concordia with a painful open wound.
Once she finally got to HSC, Milburn went under the knife for another infection, but due to the long delay in stitching up the wound, she said she was told her leg wasn’t salvageable."
I was thinking of the eligibility rules that vary from province to province, but they all have a “presence in [insert province]” criteria. Here are Ontario’s listing:
To meet the minimum qualifications you must:
1) be physically in Ontario for 153 days in any 12‑month period
2) be physically in Ontario for at least 153 days of the first 183 days immediately after you began living in the province
3) make Ontario your primary residence
To remain eligible for health insurance, you must not be absent from Québec 183 days or more, consecutive or not, in a given calendar year (January 1 to December 31). The departure and return dates, as well as absences of 21 consecutive days or less are not tallied. If you do not comply with this rule, you no longer have the status of a person settled in Québec. You will then lose your eligibility for the entire year of your absence, and you will have to reimburse the covered services received during the year. Please note that we may ask you for proof of your presence in Québec.
When I moved to Ontario, I applied immediately for Health Card/Driver’s licence. I do remember that there was a wait, but I can’t remember for which one it was.
Also, one can legitimately move to anywhere else in the country and seek health care there too. The provincial insurance will sort itself out, if you are truly moving residences.
There are some provinces which better fund their health care services, plus the urban/rural divide, plus a lot of other factors (type of treatment, required specialists, etc). If you have the means, maybe moving to a better serviced place is better for the person (it depends).
Ontario dropped the waiting period a number of years back.
The 180+ day period mentioned above is to retain coverage if you leave the province. In all cases it should cover any gap in coverage for an inter-provincial move.
Yes, to both retain coverage but also to even meet the minimum qualifications for Ontario coverage eligibility. Both cases are covered as per the quoted text.
There is no longer a waiting period for OHIP coverage. If you are eligible, you will have immediate health insurance coverage. Find out if you qualify.
There is NO waiting period in Ontario. Move to Ontario from anywhere and as long as you are a legal resident you get coverage on day one. Thats’s what immediate means.
To RETAIN coverage, you have to meet the substantial presence that was indicated in your link.
ETA: I’m an employer in Ontario. I often have to provide new resident employees with a confirmation of Ontario employment so they can walk into Service Ontario and leave with a Health Card.
I think we are arguing about a silly point. The rule above has been obsoleted by one that has removed the waiting period to qualify. The province has done a poor job updating the site, other than adding the note up top that there is no waiting period. Call Service Ontario if you like, but there is no waiting period to qualify. If you fail to meet the 153 days in the first 183 days/12 months, you lose coverage but are then immediately eligible on the day you move back. You would no longer be eligible for inter-provincial coverage if you have not established residency in another province.
I assure you, I’m not arguing. I’m just presenting the general provincial health insurance coverage rules (all provinces differ), from what I read and had to do when moving myself.
I’m glad Ontario loosened the red-tape-on-arrival stuff since I moved here, but I’m certain other provinces have similar (or even more annoying) rules regarding coverage. Here’s Nova Scotia’s (my previous province).
To be eligible for Nova Scotia Medical Service Insurance benefits you must be:
1) a Canadian Citizen or "Permanent Resident" (Landed Immigrant);
2) a resident who makes his/her permanent home in Nova Scotia;
3) present in the province 183 days every calendar year; and
4) registered with MSI.
Either way, Canadians are always covered one-way-or-another. These rules are worked out between the provinces and get sorted out without too much hassle (from my own experience).
Not to hijack, but point out this case isn’t the norm.
Hubs was recently diagnosed with suspected prostrate issues, our family Dr, had him into see a urologist within two days, a bone scan in five, and a biopsy six days later.
He has already begun treatment, I pick up a script, 0$, take it to the cancer clinic and they administer it. The cost of the drug is listed on the receipt, $930. He needs it every three months.
Oh, and they happened to find a kidney stone doing all those scans, so he gets that treated 7 days after seeing the Specialist, just last week.
This is much more indicative of how the system usually functions.
But it’s a large system and there are backlogs and wait times for certain things unfortunately.