Sorry for forgetting to get back into this thread so late, I forgot that I posted in it.
Well, I’m not so sure that my experience in crossing the border is merely anecdotal. I pass under the Lewiston-Queenston bridge every day on my way to work, and to the gym (so, at least four times a day). I go to Canada usually twice a week. I’d say in the last three months I’ve been asked for ID once going into Canada. Every time I get asked for ID coming back to the States. I have had my passport taken into question as a valid document, as well as my birth certificate. I have been asked if I owned the car I was driving. I have been grilled on what, where, and why I’ve visited Canada. (US Customs really gets antsy when I tell them I’ve been researching at the U of Toronto library; I can only imagine what’s going to happen when I start playing cricket over there and go over for practices.) Meanwhile, going over to the Canadian side, I have been waved through after answering as few as three desultory questions (“Nationality?” “Where are you going?” “What are you doing there?”) As I say, only once have I been even asked to show ID.
I used to fly between Toronto and Heathrow or Gatwick. At Pearson in Toronto, it used to take a few minutes to clear customs. In England, it took a whole lot longer–never mind that I had British resident status, and I had a permanent document in my passport attesting to that fact.
I think the most telling thing about the border is looking at the Lewiston-Queenston bridge every day. There’s almost always a traffic jam coming over to the US, and never one to Canada, despite there being about an equal number of customs agents on either side.
I don’t doubt the experiences jshore and Fretful have had. But this is what I’ve been seeing every week up here, and it’s the experience of my colleagues as well.
UPS is the one doing the charging. I looked over my last shipping slip. It was for a $400 car part. Normal taxes $60 (15% here) shipping was $39.xx and then I get another fee for $147 (Canadian). I looked into it and found it to be a broker fee. I have no idea if this is normal or not because I have never before used UPS. I then get another package (some tapes) from UPS and, after taxes and shipping they added on $40 (to a set of tapes that cost $100!)
I normally ship through USPS but a lot of companies, for some reason, are switching to UPS.
The security I mentioned was more about border security (in the sense that, a lot of stuff used to come over without any problems, then I suddenly I’m paying fee’s left and right).
Maybe it’s only UPS. I’m not going to find out because I don’t bother with US orders anymore. I emailed the last company I wanted to get something from and asked if they used UPS. They did. I asked if I could have it sent any other way, they said no.
One is not enough for you? So, tell us how many terrorists comprise a legitimate threat; where would you draw the line and say “no more!”? Besides, the border has not been sealed; strengthening lax border crossing procedures is a reaction to the fact that Canada is a hotbed of terrorist activity:
Now just where to you think those fifty organizations are aiming their efforts; the Northwest Territories? Friends don’t let terrorists operate freely out of their territory.
No, you’ll find crancks and murderously crazy people anywhere if you look. There are some very disturbed people out there, and both McVeigh and the Unabomber fall into that category. The point was that these so-called examples, wwhich purportadly proved we Americans were filled with evil and bile and hatred, are bullschiesse.
As to the other statement that “if we change anything…”
Look, life will have to change. There is no way around it. We will adapt or die.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fear Itself *
**One is not enough for you? So, tell us how many terrorists comprise a legitimate threat; where would you draw the line and say “no more!”? Besides, the border has not been sealed; strengthening lax border crossing procedures is a reaction to the fact that Canada is a hotbed of terrorist activity: http://www.usembassycanada.gov/content/can_usa/us_can_border_accord.pdf
200 Million border crossings per year. So lets say 3 years since our dear friend Ahmed so…1/600Million. I might be going out on a limb here but I think while I’m overreacting to this bio-id marker the US is overreacting to the encroaching menace from Canada.
According to this http://www.usembassycanada.gov/content/can_usa/us_can_border_accord.pdf there are 200 Million border crossings per year. So lets say 3 years since our dear friend Ahmed so…1/600Million. I might be going out on a limb here but I think while I’m overreacting to this bio-id marker the US is overreacting to the encroaching menace from Canada.
Maybe, but this new resolution isn’t directed at Canada. It’s not directed at every country. Every single person entering the country (supposedly) will have to do this. And it’s not really to prevent terrorism, so much as to keep track of who is in this country, since the US has a problem with people overstaying visas, etc and since Congress first asked for this system back in 1996 and the Patriot Act is merely reminding the DoJ that they want them to step up development.
Fifty organizations making Canada their terrorism centre, one and a half years after 9/11 - and what? No actual, real-live terrorism, except for one guy with bombs in his trunk who is caught?
What are those 50 organizations doing - twiddling their thumbs for terrorism? Holding terrorist weenie roasts? Terror fashion shows?
If all so-called “terrorists” were this inactive and peaceful, the world would be a better place.
Calling Canada a “hotbed of terrorist activity” based on this pathetic excuse for evidence is exactly what I meant by US over-reaction. Canadian security guys like Harris must share the blame, though.
Has it never occured to you that the reason terrorist experts and security chiefs like to inflate this threat is that the perception of threat directly affects their department’s budgets?
With these guys, you can’t win. If there is no terrorism, no doubt they will say that this happy result is caused by their strenuous efforts, despite the fact that Canada is a hotbed of terrorism; if there is terrorism, it is in spite of their strenuous efforts, indicating that much more is needed …
It saddens me to see people declare Canada a “hotbead of terrorism” based on so very little. It really does.
Will it help though? How does having a biometric tag help in tracking people who overstay their welcome? You’re currently required to tell INS where you’re staying and for how long will you be in the country. The fact that this information isn’t used effectively seems to point to a breakdown in the system not the identifier (passport or not).
Simply put America sees 500 Million crossings a year, 130 million vehicles, 61 million people via 500,000 international flights (Data take from US 2004 budget).
I’ll assume that the INS has all the appropriate records now to track these people. The fact is they don’t execute their mandate well. Now relax, the Canadian government does just a badly, if not worse. Perhaps it’s simply a lack of personnel, lack of combined databases etc. The fact of the matter is that adding a bio marker to an id does not help track the offenders down. It helps identify them once you have them, but then so does a photo ID.
Is there an issue of forgery here? The only benefit I can see from the biometric tags is that it would be difficult to forge. While I don’t necessarily see a problem with having the ID, I do believe Grey makes a good point. We already have foreign residents that we have lost track of after their visas have expired. How is an expensive form of ID going to help that?
And why is Canada the focus of this issue? What about Mexico?
Bah! Anything a government makes can be forged. Whether it’s by stealing a card, a bureaucratic mistake issuing a card to somebody who doesn’t exist, or someone on the inside swiping the master documents, ID is only as good as the people in charge of using it.
It doesn’t matter how good the system is, the only thing that biometrics el al will do is make it more intrusive-- and make it more difficult to correct things when you get mistakenly identified as a lawbreaker.
No government in the world is currently able to keep track of its own citizens, nor visitors, nor illegal immigrants. Bringing in a brand spanking new ID card, or eyeblinky thingy, will not change that at all.
The only way to prevent acts of terrorism is through common sense, and letting the people on the front line make decisions.
I don’t think Canada is specifically being singled out. It seems to be several things.
The Canadian government (and others) see biometric tags as a way to increase security following 9/11
The US Patriot act re-emphasizes a recommendation(?) from 1996 that encourages the INS to start looking at setting something like this us.
As others have pointed out, it’s not a really big issue. Maybe more so for Canadian simply because we are use to moving more or less freely across the border now.
I wondering how this tagging helps track down people we currently loose track of.
Y’know, it seems to me that if I were bent on some kind of terrorist activity, I might just possibly be able to find a way to avoid the whole process of showing my forged ID somewhere along the length of the 8,893 km (5,526 mile) stretch of border between the two countries.
Hey, I’m not saying it’s a really well thought out plan…I’m just trying to keep the shrieking from some of our northern friends to a minimum. It’s not a deliberate slap in the face to Canadians, it’s not singling Canadians out and it’s not some sort of panic inspired post-9/11 thing. That’s all I’m saying. Your last post, in fact, pretty much sums up my point.
I’d much rather see the INS get, you know, funding that is actually adequate so they can do their jobs properly. A radical concept, I realize, but what can I say? I’m a visionary.
I’m more pissed off at my government thinking of doing this. As you say, the problem is not one that technology can fix. Unless we want to start clamping RF tags on people.
Now look what I’ve done, gone and given them ideas.
