Cannonballs

Regarding Cecil’s new entry on cannonballs:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040423.html

Let’s not forget also red-hot shot (big heavy red-hot cannonballs could start fires on ships. And it’s not as if you could pick them up and throw them into the sea. At least not by yourself).

I read about red-hot shot in C.S. Forester’s **Leiutenant Hornblower[p/B]. In Commodore Hornblower he gives us a description of using mortars to lauch exploding shells onto the deck of an anchored ship – lots of adjusting the powder to get the shot to fall right, and to adjusting the fuse length so that the guys on the other end can’t put it out before it goes “boom”. In fact, Hornblower himself extinguishes such a shell in one book. The idea seems to be not that the shells explode on impact, but that it’s awfully hard for anyone to get to such a lit shell and extinguish the fuse of a large, heavy, rolling, and (due to its expl\ulsion by explosion) hot ball of metal before it blows up.

I have a cannonball that I found diving in the Edisto River a long time ago. It’s in my backyard and still has the fuse in it, maybe the explosive charge, too. I once read an article about drilling the fuses out of cannonballs and parrot shells under water. I considered doing that when I found it, but I drank a lot then, too. I leave it alone, it scares the shit out of me.

Where is Islandton, SC? As anyone knows who lives in or near Charleston, SC, cannonballs during the Revolutionary War were solid and fuseless. The Brits tried bombarding Ft. Moultrie, but the cannonballs bounced off the fort’s walls, which were made of palmettos. The sponginess of that wood caused the balls to bounce off harmlessly.

Exploding shells similar to those in the movie were used frequently during the American Civil War. Here’s a site which talks about some of the different types and how they worked.

barbitu8 please see the post by Mirage, my Father also dug up a live parrot shell when he was running a dragline on the Charleston Naval Base. They sent out the bomb squad and took it from him. He never saw it again. Unexploded Civil War ordinance is still consideed dangerous, even when it is found underwater.

While I was running a backhoe along the Edisto River I dug up a piece of barshot as was refrenced by Cecil. It is very rare, several collectors have seen it and identified it. I keep it at home next to the skull of the 13 foot alligator I killed nearby.

Let us not forget Martha Stewarts’s favorite ammo:quilted shot

One thing that wasn’t mentioned is the fact that the cannonballs in the movie are the size of frickin’ BEACHBALLS. I have a still-frame from one of the battle scenes that shows this clearly (I paused the DVD to look at it). Cannonballs were much, much smaller than most people think: the really badass ones (68 lbs) were at most eight inches in diameter, and the most common size on ships (32 lbs) were 5.5 inches.

When you say “beachball”, are you talking about the one to two foot wide multicolored inflatable balls? Are you sure they were that big in Pirates of the Caribbean? I would think I’d have noticed that. I’ll have to check my own DVD. Is there any particular scene which seems to show cannonballs that size?

I just happened to come back from seeing The Alamo tonight, before checking The Straight Dope today and seeing the article in question. Exploding cannonballs were used in that film.

One character, in fact, removed the wick from one before it could go off. Then had it shot back to the Mexicans.

Anyhoo…

You’ll have to go through it frame-by-frame, but you can see the (obviously CG’ed-in) cannonballs in the Interceptor vs. Pearl battle scene, when the ships are facing the camera and we’re looking between them. Here’s a (small) still. The ball is bigger than the outside diameter of the gun that fired it! The ball that takes out the column in the house is a bit more realistic, although if you freeze-frame it, you can see the column explode before the ball hits it.

The cannon at the battle of the Alamo were, AFAIK, all six-pounders (might’ve been a 12-pdr or two as well), which fire a projectile the size of a baseball (a 12-pound shot is softball-sized).

In Master and Commander, the cannonball

that the Jonah uses as a weight, and the carronade that fires it – that odd huge short-barreled gun that Blakeney and Maturin fire in the final battle –

is either a 32- or 68-pounder. You’ll also note that they didn’t bother drawing in the cannonballs in the battle scenes, because you wouldn’t be able to see them in real life.

M&C trivia: the sounds the cannonballs make – the scream/thrum as they go past – are real, recorded from actual 12- and 24-pounder guns. The cannonfire itself, however, was enhanced, because the real thing doesn’t sound “real” enough; there’s not really a “boom”, just a kind of roaring screech.

Which it’s a Treatise on the Practical Application of Round Shot

Before the mid-19th century, cannon were smoothbore and fired solid balls of cast iron (well, there were also grape, canister, and all manner of rigging-cutting shot, but that was explained enough by the column). Round shot, as it’s called, was used thusly:

On land, in a battlefield situation against columns of soldiers, it would be fired so that the ball would skip along the ground like a rock on a pond, taking off legs and such with murderous effectiveness. This was shown well, albeit with oversized Hollywood cannonballs, in the Mel Gibson Revolutionary-War flick The Patriot. When the enemy got close enough, the gunners would switch to grape and canister, double- or treble-shotting (loading two or three projectiles at once) the guns, if the gunners got really desperate and the enemy really close.

Against a fort, one would simply fire at a single spot until a hole was made in the wall, through which one’s troops would then run.
On ships, the tactic was a bit different in that the round shot wasn’t used directly against personnel; instead, it was usually fired into the side of the enemy’s hull, where it lodged partway through – the people were killed and maimed by the splinters of oak (BIG splinters, and sharp, like a broken baseball bat) that the impact knocked loose from the inside of the wall, much like the cone-shaped spall that breaks out of the far side of a piece of glass when shot by a BB gun. Again, two or three balls (or some combination of round shot and grape) would be loaded on top of each other at close range to maximise the devastation.

Ideally, though, a ship would cross behind the enemy and fire through her stern; unlike the sides, which were 18 inches or more of solid oak, the back end of a wooden warship had only fragile gallery of windows and perhaps two guns. Also, there were no interior walls/bulkheads, so crossing the enemy’s stern would let one fire a full broadside volley of round shot (doubled with grape, if close enough) straight through the enemy ship, from back to front, knocking over guns and maiming people.

This reminds me of something I wondered about while reading Andrew Ward’s book Our Bones Are Scattered: The Cawnpore Massacres and the Indian Mutiny of 1857. On page 228 the author writes

Can someone explain to me how these “carcasses” worked? Was there a fuzed charge that ignited and dispersed the rosin, or what?

Just to clarify something about field artillery, weren’t they shot not at people but at the ground before them, in hope of it bouncing and actually hitting the entire column/line. If you shoot it straight at the people from an elevation (where artillery was placed) the ball would just get stuck in the ground, wouldn’t it ?

I’m no expert, so if I’m wrong, correct me.

I’m not sure I understand the part about the ball getting stuck in the ground.

For the Siege of Constantinople a Hungarian mercenary engineer named Urban designed a battery of supercannon. Accounts vary widely from source to source, but the largest is usually said to have been between 26 and 28 feet in length, 24-30 inches in diameter, and capable of firing a ball weighing between 800 and 1200 lbs… (It took hours to load and more than 100 lbs. of powder to fire.)

I’ve wondered before if this deafened those nearby when it erupted the first time.

How big were the stationary guns at Charleston or on Ft. Sumter?

Possibly, or they could’ve just been designed to burst on impact. The 1850s was the period when exploding shells started to get reliable enough to use.

100- to 300-pounder Parrot rifles, although it doesn’t say exactly when they came into service. Before that, they had 32-pounder smoothbores.
Back to the OP, red-hot shot was used only by the shore guns against ships. It was rather impractical and too dangerous to try to heat the shot on a ship. Besides, the ships were more valuable captured (the crew of the capturing ship got the proceeds from the sale of the captured, even if the government bought it) than burned and/or sunk.

The Athens, GA, city hall has a double-barreled cannon outside it.
I guess the idea was to attach two balls with a chain and then to mow down a whole line of enemies, rather than just a column. Not surprisingly, the pinpoint precision timing that would be required to make something like this work wasn’t there. The chain broke, a cow died, a chimney was penetrated. It didn’t prove to be the useful battle tool they thought it would be.
http://www.athensclarkecounty.com/tour/tour4.htm

On an unrelated note, they also have a tree that owns itself.
http://www.athensclarkecounty.com/tour/tour10.htm

First a minor point no one has mentioned: in Pirates of the Caribbean the Black Pearl uses chain shot to take down the Interceptor’s mainmast.

Second, something every movie ever made on naval warfare of the period misses: before a battle, every bit of wood that could be replaced after the battle, including furniture, chests, barrels, what-have-you, was tossed overboard (becoming, literally, “jetsam”) so that it couldn’t become the very lethal splinters mentioned in an earlier post. “The Price of Admiralty” by, I think, Keegan, covers this nicely, together with a wealth of other interesting information.

Third, no one has mentioned the time periods involved. The various comments made, while pretty accurate, are frequently specific to a particular period. For instance, no Parrot rifles existed during the time frame when the Disney film could reasonably have been set, which I would take to be somewhere between 1700 and 1820, roughly (the Interceptor is actually a late-18th Century replica). Master and Commander is set, as I recall (been a while, and haven’t seen the DVD yet) around 1813 (the books themselves cover roughly turn of the century to the end of the Napoleonic wars–although I’ll confess to being at book five, and so, I don’t know where exactly they end).

In this time period, naval gunnery used, for the most part, solid ball shot, as has been observed, and some other specialized shot. Explosive shell shot was fired, again, as has been noted, usually from a mortar or petard from a bomb ketch or similar vessel. You can draw some pretty fair conclusions about what got used, and comparative tactics simply by examining munitions manifests for ships in the various navies.

The major combatants of the period, the Spanish, English, and French (the Dutch navy ceased to be much of a threat after Camperdown, but was similar to the British in many respects) all had different approaches to naval warfare, largely imposed by limitations on personnel and leadership. The Spanish generally had the weakest gunnery of the period, and tended to overman their ships with soldiery, intending to fight boarding actions–and the general design of their ships reflected this until a rather late date, sometime in the mid-1700’s (the Pearl herself).

The French navy, its leadership decimated during the Terror and its common sailors inducted as foot soldiers, suffered from seamanship that was, on average, not the equal of the British, in terms of both ship-handling and gunnery (remember, that’s on average; you could always find good commanders and well-manned ships–just not nearly as many as in other navies). Given this disparity, the French were more likely to use chain- and bar-shot to destroy sails and rigging than, say, the British, in an attempt to prevent the enemy from closing to ranges where superior gunnery or better-trained boarding parties could make the difference. Frequently, however, it had better-found ships of newer design.

The British, in spite of brutal discipline and the unfortunate practice of pressing, generally had better crews, and often, although certainly not always, better leaders. The main British strategy throughout most of this period was to close to 100 yards or less in line-of-battle and attempt to hole the enemy below the waterline. If you’ve ever visited any of the preserved ships of the period, such as the *U.S.S Constitution * or the H.M.S. Victory, among the exhibits is the equipment used to attempt to plug such holes: tapered, circular wooden wedges whittled before the battle, pre-tarred leather patches, hot tar, and wooden mallets.

The “long nines” mentioned by the Commodore in Pirates are nine-pound “chasers,” meant to damage running gear at long range during pursuit. In fact, when he says, “Just get him in range of the long nines,” it’s a bit disingenuous, since at that point the Interceptor is well in range of any gun the Dauntless could bring to bear; it may be that it only had bow chasers, although ships of the line–third-rate and above–certainly had some guns at the stern, and often stern “chasers,” although the term doesn’t make the same sense in that context.

There were other weapons used during the period as well, such as the carronades someone mentioned, which were, essentially, sawed-off guns of major calibre; no range, but heavy weight of fire at close range. But then, getting that close was the problem, as the side with the lee guage could always choose to decline engagement, unless, as at the Chesapeake, external considerations prevented that.

Tactically, a stern or bow rake was certainly the most lethal attack. The U.S.S Chesapeake was defeated in 15 minutes by a lesser frigate that outsailed it, getting in at least two stern rakes. When Nelson broke the Franco-Spanish line at Trafalgar, the French flagship, which Nelson’s column passed astern of, took stern rakes from five British men-of-war at pistol range; nine-tenths of its crew of more than 800 were killed.

As for shot burying itself, that’s exactly what it would do it it struck the ground at too oblique an angle, hence the “skipping” technique mentioned (naval gunners would also sometimes play “ducks and drakes,” skipping shot over the water; how the pirates manage to miss every one of Commodore Norrington’s boats is pure Hollywood–must have been the ancestors of Lucas’ storm troopers :wink: ). And a last comment in an overly-long screed, it’s not generally realized what an incredible amount of firepower a ship-of-the-line carried: more guns, and of heavier calibre than a large field army of the period towed around. Only fortresses such as Port Royal could match them (and that’s where you’d find the guns larger than 32-pounders). Had the Black Pearl actually been what it appears, an obsolete Spanish galleon (with a high castle on the poop, for boarding purposes), its foray into Port Royal would have lasted a very few minutes before it was kindling washing up on the beaches.

The film Master and Commander is set in 1805 (the opening sequence is in April, although I think the movie covers a couple of months condensed into a couple of hours.

In regard to rosin filled “carcasses”

If they just burst on impact, was the idea to spray the target with a gooey inflammable and then ignite it later with heated shot or some other incendiary?

Or was the rosin in the carcass ignited just by firing it out of the cannon?

I find this hard to believe – most naval battles were in the middle of the ocean. They’re not going to be tossing all their stuff overboard. It’s not like there’s a Ship-Mart on every corner where they can just buy all-new everything. There’s two feet of soild oak on all sides – I don’t think a table or chair would measurably add to the carnage. True, there was absolutely nothing nonessential on the gun decks during a fight – even the walls of the captain’s cabin were disassembled and put away – but it wasn’t thrown overboard, they just took it all below and stored it out of the way in the hold (or, in a frigate, on the gunless mess deck), where there wasn’t anybody to get hurt. All the people were on the guns and rigging, or in the surgeon’s and gunner’s compartments below the waterline in the center of the ship (in the off chance a ball got that far in, a few splinters would be the least of anybody’s worries). There’s a good example of this during the first “beat to quarters” scene in Master and Commander – as Jack begins walking to the door, there’s a flurry of hammering and the entire wall just disappears.

That, I agree with. Dauntless is a two-decker, with around 74 guns; they could’ve turned and put well over a thousand pounds of iron into Interceptor’s vulnerable stern at that point – the big guns could shoot over a mile. Of course, two people couldn’t actually do anything with a sailing warship; even a small brig like Interceptor would’ve just sat there – it takes at least five men just to unfurl a sail. Her crew would’ve been over 100, about a quarter to a third of those needed just to operate the sails at any one moment.

In light of the poetic license taken with the sailing in Pirates (set around 1740, btw), anachronistic exploding shells aren’t all that bad…