I live in a neighborhood with a beach access to a nice pond (about 100 acres), and it’d be nice to have a canoe that I can paddle out in, and do a little fishing.
I also like to camp, and go on canoe rides down moderate water. (nothing real in the way of rapids/whitewater), usually heading out for a couple of days, with a few friends. We’ve rented canoes before, but now (with the house near the pond) it’s time for me to get one of my very own.
I can transport it (2005 Subaru Baja, I’ll find a way to make it work on the roof).
So, fellow dopers, what kind of a canoe would you all suggest? I’d be in the used market, as that’s likely the price point that I can reach comfortably (about $500). What sort of tips do you have for scouring the want ads/online listings? Fair prices? What to look for in way of condition/problems?
What things to I NEED to have with it as well (other than life jackets, and a couple of paddles, rope for a bowline/towline [can never have enough rope])?
Basic needs summary:
Good performance for single or dual paddlers.
Able to carry 2 grown men 200+ lbs each) , and 2 days of camping gear (we can go minimal, (backpacks, cooler, and miminal additional load) but our “car camping” site is a sight to behold, the campground guy once had a good chuckle at our “primitive tent site.” Kitchen setup, chairs, tarps… :D)
Light enough to be dragged 30-50 feet empty by a single man. Usually across sand.
You may be in luck on this one, because your location is convenient to my parents canoe and kayak sales and rental shop. They can tell you everything you need to know. go to complete paddler.com and check them out. If you don’t mind travelling to Denmark Maine (15 min across the border NH) It is worth the trip. Jim and Leslie Stanicki can give you a boat to try and see if you like it, and get you set up to purchase. Tell them Robyn sent you.
Robyn
sugrnspce thanks for the tip, though the site is a bit lacking. No details on what kinds of canoes, and the “contact us” page is pointing towards a dead page. I’d go up and take a look, but I can’t figure out where it is.
Do they sell used? I’m not really in the market for a new one… there are plenty of canoes out there that are sitting in the backyard, and up for sale this spring…
Not Coleman. And not aluminum, unless you really can’t afford something else.
I would suggest finding a used canoe similar to one of these, which are good all around canoes, any of which a single person can easily portage on his/her shoulders:
Make sure synthetic canoes aren’t nearly worn through near the stern from dragging on rocks. Make sure synthetic canoes aren’t too damaged from being stored in the sun. Make sure the ribs and keel on aluminum canoes aren’t cracked.
Check out, “How to Build Your Kevlar Canoe” on Amazon. Yeah, that’s right – a homemade canoe! I really do have the book, and it’s a super interesting read, but I’ve not started building my own canoe yet (and not sure that I will – too many other things to do right now).
At least two people at work are semi-convincing me to try kyaking. They’re both former canoe enthusiasts. I’ve not tried it yet, but I’m just repeating their advocacy.
I don’t know what’s wrong with aluminum; that will probably be the cheapest you can find. One person who’s not a little weakling can carry a 17 footer overhead easily. There aren’t a whole lot of little weaklings involved in outdoor activities, so you’re in luck. That said, sure, fiberglass or kevlar will be sure to be a lot lighter!
My GF and I spent 2 days paddling and carrying a rented aluminium canoe in Sweden last summer. It wasn’t too heavy, but every gram off is appreciated when you have to hump the canoe and all the contents from one lake to another. I would imagine that if the water is cold you’d appreciate the extra insulation from composite.
Finally, the metal was noisy - every little thing resulted in a loud clank, rattle or scrape. I think composite would be much more tranquil.
Having said all that, the thing was built like a tank - no worries about breaking it,which was just as well…
Wouldn’t you know it? That’s the thread that inspired me to buy the book! Since then, I’ve bought a new house, spent a year working in Mexico, and have a full summer of housework coming up. So, I haven’t built mine yet, but I’m still hoping!
Good points. I’ve honestly not spent too much time with anything that’s not aluminum, so I guess it’s just a case of “what you’re used to.” We’re planning on going back to Algonquin this year, which means lots and lots of portages (long ones at that, and it’s been a long time since I’ve been there). Maybe I’ll try one of them there newfangled, lightweight composites and see if I get completely spoiled by the experience.
Hit a store, and talk to the staff to buy a new one. - Seems silly to me, there have to be lots of canoes out there that someone else bought new, and now doesn’t want.
Build my own. I’ve never owned one, though I’ve used plenty… I’m not quite ready for that yet…
Aluminium vs fiberglass… looks like fiberglass is the winner here, I can afford a lower end fiberglass one, and that weight differential makes a big difference when you’re actually out there. I had been planning some sort of fiberglass anyway.
**Kansas Beekeeper ** that’s EXACTLY the sort of thing I’m looking for here… I like that Old Town. From what I’ve heard, you can’t go wrong with an Old Town.
Remember, this canoe is a pretty general purpose one… I’m not planning any 80mile paddles, lasting for days… this is for a weekend out & back kind of trip… probably not more than 10miles total any day. And most of that is likely to be on a lake anyway, or relatively gentle streams at the worst. It’s more common use will be in the 100acre pond/mini-lake which I have access to (and storage for the canoe at)
All three, Bell, Wenonah, and Old Town are good companies. The canoes I suggested are general paddling canoes, not white water canoes. I use my Bell Vermont mostly on ponds and very gentle rivers.
If you look on the companies’ sites, they talk some about canoe design. What they generally say is that with aluminum canoes, there really wasn’t a lot of design that went into the hull shape, but that they have done a lot more with the synthetic canoes. I’ve owned an old aluminum Grumman for years and years, and while it was cheap and is pretty much bullet proof, it really is more difficult to control than a newer synthetic canoe, so I think there is some truth to the companies’ claims. In addition, aluminum also tends to grab when you hit a rock, while a synthetic canoe slides over it easier. And as noted, aluminum is noisy and can be too hot or cold.
Fiberglass will show scratches. And do be careful, there were some terrible fiberglass canoes made in the 70s. I would only buy one in a reputable brand.
Aluminum canoes are cheap and durable. They are fairly heavy, and exhibit a lot of friction on rocks. If they are pierced, it usually takes specialized welding to fix them. In rougher water, one could be wrapped around a big rock, which is essentially unfixable.
Fiberglass canoes are light and glide over rocks pretty easily. They are somewhat fragile, and rather susceptible to abrasion. Small holes can be fixed with fiberglass repair techniques. An encounter with a big rock and fast current could snap one in two.
ABS plastic canoes are durable and glide nicely over rocks. They’re about as heavy as aluminum canoes, and probably twice the price. I’m not sure about “fixability,” but the issue seems to seldom come up because of their strength - one could bend around a rock and possibly return to shape.
There are other plastics and other types of materials (e.g. Kevlar) used. I don’t have detailed knowledge of the differences. By “ABS plastic” above, I’m thinking of the approx. 1/4" thick stuff used by Old Town, Mad River, Wenonah, Bell, etc.
In your price range I would expect you could get a used ABS canoe (such as those suggested by Kansas Beekeeper) in good condition. While an aluminum canoe would suffice, my experience is that the plastic ones are more enjoyable to use, and I suspect you’d be happier with one. For two people and camping gear, I’d look for a length of about 17 feet.
We use a Coleman Vantage when we visit a lake in Massachusetts every year. The hull seems indestructible as it is a plastic-like substance. However, when paddling at a decent speed, the bottom of the boat is somewhat flexible and this is hugely inefficient. I wouldn’t take that boat on a long distance paddle.
I also use a touring kayak and since using that I really can’t stand using canoes anymore because of how slow and uncomfortable they are. If you can pack light, look into those.
Dragging a canoe across sand (even 30-50 feet) is going to chew it up over time. Your average canoe is only 65-70 lbs empty, so you might as well just carry it.
Two 200 pounders and gear is a lot of weight, so you’re looking at a good-sized canoe. At least 17 feet and maybe 18. People have pretty much covered material. One advantage of aluminum is that it can be stored outside – fiberglass and plastics should probably be covered as the sunlight can degrade them over time. Aesthetically, fiberglass is pretty nice, but you wouldn’t want to use it in any sort of a whitewater situation, or even in a rocky stream. Kevlar or one of the synthetics is probably the ideal material (except for cost).
Hull shape is an issue. For flat water, you want a boat with a bit of a keel and not much rocker (curve in the hull). This lets the canoe track in a straight line which is what you do most of in flat water. For whitewater canoeing, you want a more pronounced rocker and no keel so that you can manuver easily. The penalty there is that a whitewater canoe is a bit squirrely on flat water.
You might also looking into sea kayaks if you’re going be going out alone most of the time. The downside is less accessible cargo space, but the difference in speed and manuverability is considerable. Still, nothing beats a canoe if all you want to do is paddle into the middle of the pond, pull out a book and laze in the sun for a while (fishing pole optional).
I agree with everything here, except to some extent the keel. My old Grumman has a keel, and I’ve got to say I don’t really miss it on my new canoe, even on a lake. To me it’s just another 1 inch below the boat to hit on something. My opinion would be that if you want to use it on even mild rivers, don’t get one with a keel.
Some canoe dealers have special sale days where they take a bunch of canoes to a local lake and let people try them out. You might go to one and try different canoes to see what works best for you.
I’m more of a kayaker that canoer so I can’t help much on the boat but here’s some things to think about:
If you are going to have rope with you on moving water (a river) you will want to have a knife or some means to cut it in an emergency situation. Keep it on your person not in the boat.
Have enough bungee cords, straps etc. to secure loose items (coolers and stuff) to the boat so if you capsize you will not have to chase your stuff all over.
Get a dry bag or dry box to store things (cell phone, camera, clothing, sleeping bags) you want to stay dry in the event you tip over.
part A: I’d likely carry it, it’s not that far from storage to water.
Part B: Finally someone that understands the REAL plan!!! Though I like the kayak idea, the storage for the lazy weekend trip isn’t really practical… it’d also be nice to take Mrs. Butler & the Butlerette out on the pond. River Hippie… I always have a knife… one of the things I learned in Scouts, long ago, is that not much can go wrong if you’ve got a knife (except cutting yourself, keep it sharp, sharp knives make less damage than dull ones, even though it sounds strange). If you’ve got rope (and you always need rope), you need a knife.
Im sorry about the trouble with the website, my father means to revamp it.
The best way to get to my parents shop from New Hampshire ( and Im from AK so Ive not been there in a while) is to enter ME from Rte 16(E) to 302(E)…Conway NH area. Takes you thru Fryeburg to rt 113. take 117 from Brownfield through to Denmark. Pass “Jim Bob’s Store” and turn right on Bush Row Road. Calculate 8/10 mile; at the crest of a hill is Complete Paddler on the left-lots cof canoes in plain sight…If you get lost in Denmark, don’t worry…Everyone in a town of 700 knows my family.
They have lots of new and used canoes for saleand if they don’t have what you are looking for they can order one for you, or point you in the right direction. Either way, you’ll get a canoe, a cold beer and a nice bit of conversation…!
R.
Everything (that I know about) has been pretty much covered…
I can let you know my one canoeing tip - to prevent a tipped/water filled canoe from sinking entirely, fill two of those wine-in-a-box bladders with air and jam them in the bow and stern spaces. (Don’t empty them in the canoe, unless you want to have to test their flotation right away ;))
Though I like the kayak idea, the storage for the lazy weekend trip isn’t really practical… it’d also be nice to take Mrs. Butler & the Butlerette out on the pond.