In sum: I was in a car accident. The other driver was at-fault (confirmed by multiple witnesses). My '99 Corolla was totaled.
Now, I cannot get the value to replace it (KBB $5,000) from either her or my insurance company.
The claim is they do not have to replace the car. They only have to offer me as-is market value. In my car’s case, I can only guess this is due to “satisfactory” paint and carpets (in spite of excellent mechanical condition after 190k miles… that’s thanks to all the money I dumped into brakes, struts, etc.). I am in Washington State. ETA: I was not injured nor were my children. We’ve been to a great medical center and I’m sure we’re fine.
I don’t know what to do. Should I accept their offer of what they think I could buy it for on Craigslist and suck it up to bad luck? Can I sue for distress and lost work hours (have been told not for lost work hours).
I just can’t believe that they don’t have to put me in a mechanically similar vehicle!
Tips? Commiseration? Should I get a lawyer (I can’t pay one myself)? Would the woman who caused the accident have to pay me the cash for my car and lawyers fees if I did sue?
I’m so upset and lost. I just want my trusty little car back!
on what planet is a 1999 Corolla with 190,000 miles worth $5000?
and they are correct.
the thing has 190,000 miles. It’s not “excellent” by any stretch of the imagination. It’s between “good” and “fair” condition according to KBB’s ratings. Period. At best it’s worth $2800.
Actually KBB is a good place to start. Try Edmunds for a second oppinion. Make sure you answer the questions honestly, because you’re trying to determine the value of your car (pre-accident), not your make and model of museum piece. So put in 190k miles, put in excellent mechanical condition, and be honest about the body and interior. Now get the private party value, i.e. what you can get for it on the open market. This value is what you should be getting from the insurance company. Don;t use ythe dealer trade-in (too low) or dealer retail (too high) prices.
I suspect either you put information into kbb.com that’s not accurate to your vehicle or you were looking at the dealer retail price. Insurance companies are usually pretty good at paying the private party value, so if they’re low, call them up and tell them kbb and Edmunds say it’s worth about this much and I won’t accept a penny less.
Really sorry to hear about the accident, and glad that you and yours are OK.
Unfortunately that, by definition, is how much it costs to replace the car. Unfortunately you can’t argue that it’s worth more than market value, if you could not get more than that for your car before the wreck on the open market. Which you certainly couldn’t, given its age and mileage. Sucks, but that’s how it works.
Had the same thing happen to me. Someone hit my paid off car, totaled it. I got book-price for it, but to get something else I also had to drop in an extra multiple thousands of dollars…hence I ended up with a car payment becasue of it all.
How much time did you really miss from work if you weren’t hurt? I don’t think “distress” will count for a whole lot (but I don’t live in Washington either, so I don’t know your laws) Even if you sue, you only get money IF you win.
My brother got hit, and it totaled his NOT PAID OFF car…problem was he still owed more on his car that what it was worth (very high mileage work/delivery vehicle) …so even after he got book for it, and applied tht money to his totaled car, it wasn’t enough and he still had to finish paying it off…then fo find another car!
(that actually happened to my husband’s neice too!)
Wow… I see JZ is right. Who told you its worth five grand? Making some educated guesses I’d say you’ve got about $1,800 there. Now, go fill out kbb and Edmunds and see if you get a different result. If you sue, you’re going to need some evidence that your car is worth more than that… besides kbb and Edmunds, where would you look for said evidence?
I have replaced the brakes, struts and tires, none of which have more than 30,000 miles on them, all within the past two years. I have punched the data, with the exact mileage, into KBB. :shrug: That’s what it spits out.
A brief search on Craigslist in my area shows an average price–and this is without any mechanical inspection at all–of $4,000 (still more than their offer) and at dealers (search yourself if you don’t believe me) of $4,995. Seattle area.
KBB dealer price–there is only one price given–is $5,100 or so.
I looked at all of this before they made an offer. I have called dealerships and asked them for alternatives. It’s right there for the whole world to see. One insurance adjuster even searched with me on the phone and found–I kid you not–a 196k '99 Corolla priced at $6,000. That was the ONLY car she came up with on her search and she said that the separate company would find more.
My problem is this. I could take the money but then I couldn’t buy a '99 Corolla with 190k miles and new brakes, struts, and winter tires.
THAT IS MY PROBLEM. I put money into my car to make it safe and now I cannot buy a safe car. I was bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of safety and reliability.
To all those who can buy a '99 Corolla for $2,800… bring it here. I’ll give you $3,000 cash. Good luck with that. I offered the insurance companies to find a car that would check out mechanically, instead of a check. They wouldn’t do it because they cannot find it.
Ugh. I’m going to have to spend my entire tax return repairing a used car… just like last year. And then if some other idiot hits me… I’ll have to do it again. What a racket! If only there were a way to know that if my car is hit, I will be able to be covered and not have to invest in a new car…
oh wait…
there is.
It’s called insurance!
But I’m not trying to SELL a car. I don’t have a car to sell, nor do I want to sell a car. I need to BUY a car.
Should have broken my arm. Then I could get all my lost hours recovered (even those used for the same purposes I’m using them now), AND a replacement vehicle. It would totally be worth it! Broken nose. Anything remotely medical so I could replace my winter tires, which are now worthless as I can’t afford to take them off the wheels and Pemco won’t pay to take them off for me, nor will it replace them.
Now I’m going to be healthy but driving a death trap. I hope the brakes give out when parked and it hits a Mercedes insured by Pemco. Would serve them right. With my luck, though, we’ll all die. Which is what the insurance company is counting on. I put in my extra $ for winter tires but not brakes as I am in school, and then have to pay that much more for premiums for driving a piece-of-shit vehicle, and then joy of joys, I have the pleasure of driving off a bridge or something when the brakes give out and nobody pays anybody a single penny. Lucky them. They’d be laughing all the way to the bank.
I am soooo pissed about the brakes. If only there were pre-schools nearer to my house. I’d buy a bike.
I can easily imagine people (especially dealers) asking for 5,000 - 6000 for a near 200,000 mile Corolla, finding someone who will actually pay that as a non-financed cash price is a very different kettle of fish.
A friend who has extensive experience in car sales recently sold in his Toyota Avalon with 160,000 miles in very good condition (for a car with that mileage) and felt fortunate to get $ 2,500 cash for it.
I think your $ 5000 expectation as the arms length market value for your car is extremely optimistic.
The insurance company is offering you seller’s price. It’s what it’s worth if you were going to sell it instead of it being junk. When you buy insurance for your next car, get replacement value insurance. (for your house or apartment too.) If you don’t, it will always be depreciated value, which won’t replace squat. It’s more expensive, but well worth it, IMO.
A lawyer probably could get you more, but, as has been said, they cost the difference.
It always costs the victim more than it does the perpetrator, whether it’s a car accident or crime.
As far as time off work, they may negotiate that. I live in Seattle too. A couple years ago, I was rear-ended at a stop light. I wasn’t hurt, but I chipped a tooth. I stayed home the day of the accident, because I was shaken up, and I had to do all the stuff to become mobile again. The next day was spent at the dentist. Farmer’s Insurance initially didn’t want to pay my time off, because it was so much (I worked 12 hour night shifts in an ICU, about $45/hr, a bit over $1000) but eventually they gave in.
This is how insurance works. It is, unfortunately, a risk of driving an older vehicle. Take the money they give you and finance a newer (but still used), safe vehicle.
If you’ve lost wages due to the accident, then you should definitely be reimbursed for that. If they’re saying no, ask why. If it’s because the other driver excluded that from their policy, you may be able to sue for lost wages in small claims court. If it’s because they’ve determined you have a pre-existing condition, you may need a lawyer to recoup that.
The prices of older Hondas and Toyotas can be a little nuts in the west coast cities, especially in lots. At this point, most people realize there’s nothing magic about those two marques when you’re talking about a 15-year old car, but that mindset still seems to persist some places. This means that sellers who aren’t too worried about selling them fast (especially dealers) can price them high and wait for some overly brand-conscious person to come along. Looking on my middle-of-the-country craigslist page, the only Corolla of that vintage is a nice looking '99 with 170k, new brakes, struts and tires for $2700. I suspect you probably could find a similar deal in your market if you watched the sites and classifieds like a hawk, but they go fast because they’re popular cars.
If I were you what I’d do is take the insurance money and buy yourself a similar-vintage (or even slightly newer) Taurus or Malibu or Impala or some other domestic snooze-mobile. With some shrewd shopping you should be able to pick up a perfectly nice one with enough left over to buy yourself a set of winter tires (although what the heck do you need them for in Seattle?).
To the OP - there is a 2000 Chevy Prism with 150k miles for sale in your area - Craigslist link - for $2500. The Chevy Prism was mechanically identical to the same year Toyota Corollas, and was built in the same joint factory GM & Toyota had in California.
Big regional difference, I guess! Out of curiosity (and without knowing the specific model or trim package) I priced a 1999 Corolla with 190K in SE Michigan. KBB: Excellent condition, $2,733, good condition: $2,383, fair: $1,833. That’s private party prices.
Around here $2500 will buy a car in decent shape with fewer miles. I bought a 2001 Mercury Villager (same as Nissan Quest) minivan last year with 138K miles, leather, all options, dual airbags, etc and in very good condition for $2200 cash.
that doesn’t mean it’s in “Excellent” condition. it has 190,000 miles. The engine and trans may run fine but they’re way past their prime. There are small paint chips and dings all over the car. There is rust that you don’t see yet (yes, there is.) There are other parts which haven’t failed yet but will do so soon. KBB even says that less than 3% of the cars they value are considered “Excellent.” Basically the only way to have a used car that meets their criteria for “Excellent” is to buy a new car, drive it home, put it in storage, and never drive it again.
using 98101 for the zip code, nothing I do on KBB gets me over $3300 for “Good” condition. Are you looking at what the car might sell for if you sell it yourself? or what a dealer might list it for?
If the numbers you’re giving us are correct then you have crappy insurance. You might be able to get a little more with some arguing then buy yourself a good used American car, those also routinely go over 200,000 miles these days. If I were you I would jump on that Prism RandomLetters found.
My son’s 1998 Honda Civic recently got stolen. It had 110,000 miles on it. The thieves totalled it and the insurance offered him 4700, which he took. This was American National Insurance. I know Hondas are usually more expensive than Toyotas but not that much. His interior was in really good shape but the outside was average. He then bought a 2003 Chevy Cavalier with 126,000 miles for $1850.
Just because you can’t afford a Toyota doesn’t mean you have to drive something crappy. American and foreign cars are not as far apart in quality as they used to be and with a little research you can find something for cheaper that will last longer than your Toyota would have.
