My wife skidded into the back of a car in the rain one winter at a red light. The light turned green she pulled over to the side. The car infront of her just took off when the light turned green. She call the cops to report the accident. their conclusion was the other driver was probably Illegal.
Am I understanding this correctly? Driver A swerved across a lane and came to a complete stop to make a right turn. Driver B, who was behind Driver A, slammed on his brakes and did not hit Driver A (who drove away). Driver C (the OP) slammed on his brakes, and hit Driver B. Driver C’s truck is owned by his Employer.
Then, Driver C (the OP) did not remain at the scene of the accident or exchange insurance information with Driver B.
Is this what happened?
Usually and especially in this situation it is the insurance adjusters who determine “who is at fault”. That is, who will pay to repair the damages. One of the rules they go by is that if you are driving a car and hit an object that is not moving, you are “at fault”. It doesn’t really matter how you got into this situation. You or your insurance are responsible for repairs. You won’t be getting a citation because a cop wasn’t present to witness the accident. Assuming the accident was reported to the DMV, your insurance rates possibly will be increased. I wouldn’t get too wound up about “fault”.
Some time ago some car parts fell out of a truck that was ahead of my wife. The parts damaged our car when my wife ran into them. In order for our insurance company to cover the damage she had to say the parts were moving when she hit them.
By your own description swoop and squat is not what happened to you. Car A cuts in front of car B. Car B has a legitimate grievance as Car A cut off car B and violated Car A’s right of way.
You were Car C. Car B did not cut you off. Car B was traveling in their right of way and stopped suddenly. You hit Car B. The reason car B stopped is irreverent. You are required to leave sufficient space between your vehicle and the vehicle in front of you to be able to stop before hitting them. You didn’t do that.
Your company or your companies insurance is responsible for damage to car B. Your company is responsible for damage to the vehicle you were driving. If your company carries collision insurance on their vehicles(I assume they do) your company can file a claim against their insurance to pay for the damage.
If either the owner of car B or your company files an insurance claim it is a surchargible incident on your license. Your personal insurance rates will be impacted. Your companies insurance rates may also be impacted but you are not responsible for that.
Squat is what happened because car B came to a sudden and rapid stop in 45 mph traffic, in the MIDDLE lane. Car A made a right turn, from the MIDDLE lane. In response to car A’s careless driving, car B created an unsafe environment for all drivers nearby, if this isn’t swoop and squat what is?
nope -
scoop and squat is where car A (the scammer) scoops in between you and car B and comes to a stop - basically - put himself so close to you and slammed on the brakes in order to insure you hit them.
(car B 'scoops in" between you and car A and “squats (stopps suddenly)”)
The only way your scenario works as a scoop and squat is if both cars are in on it - and even then, its more a classic “stupid driver” routine - what did you expect car B to do? You should always be prepared for a “sudden stop” by the cars in front of you.
Car A (careless driver) may have created the “unsafe environment” - but you made it worse by not having adequate stopping distance for the truck and load you were driving for the conditions - by your own admission.
No. You hit a car that was traveling in front of you and came to a complete stop. Car B had reason to come to a complete stop. You hit a stopped vehicle. You hit a vehicle from behind. There is no justification for your action, you did not leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front of you to be able to safely stop.
A car creating an unsafe environment does not give you a free pass. If someone parked their car in the middle of the street you are still responsible if you hit it. You are responsible for maintaining control of your vehicle. Them being parked in the middle of the street may also result in action against them but it does not absolve you of your responsibility.
If you were driving behind Car B and their rear axle disintegrated resulting in them coming to a complete stop, you would be 100% responsible for hitting them.
If you were driving behind Car B and a small child ran out in front of them and they slammed on the brakes, you would be 100% responsible for hitting them.
If you are driving a heavier vehicle you must account for it and leave sufficient space between you and the next vehicle for you to stop should they come to a complete stop.
Don’t be so sure your personal insurance is going to suffer. Many years ago I had an accident in a company car - I was at fault for this one - and as far as I can tell my insurance never knew. My rates did not go up.
BTW, which driver tried to take your keys? The driver in B? How did you manage to take a photo of the license of car A who sped away?
Hitting another car does not necessarily put you at fault. I hit a car who unsafely pulled out of a driveway right in front of me (not too hard.) He was unlicensed and uninsured. Someone called the cops who did come. They asked me if I was wearing my seatbelt (I was) and chewed him out, and wouldn’t let him drive. I did not get a ticket, it was covered by my uninsured motorists coverage, and my rates did not go up.
Paying a body shop is a lot cheaper than paying a lawyer. I suspect your company will pay and you’ll never hear anything about it again. Leaving enough space to stop in a freeway situation might be theoretically nice but practically impossible, since the moment you do two cars will pull into the empty space.
Moderator Action
Since this is more of a legal and advice type of question, let’s move this to IMHO.
Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion.
Yes, and 4 car lengths was clearly insufficient. It’s up to you to drive safely. You should ideally leave your stopping distance between you and the car in front.
Over here there was a spate of people deliberately getting their cars rear-ended for the insurance claim. It was stopped dead by the spread of dashcams. If you have a dashcam you can demonstrate that you were driving safely and that responsibility for the incident lies with the other party.
It certainly wouldn’t hurt, if only to support shifting part of the blame onto the drive away guy.
Of course, it’s just as possible the drive away car was just a jerk. Frankly, now that I’ve thought about it, if this were to be pinging my BS meter the guy you hit would have had very clear and proper documentation, and a car FULL of people, all of whom would have been bitching and moaning and insisting on the police coming and bringing ambulances. One sketchy dude driving a POS he may or may not have had any business driving…meh, he was probably just a sketchy dude driving a POS, and who got cut off by a jerk.
Agree with you entirely, A sped away, B tried to take my keys
It doesn’t matter if the other driver was illegal. I was an adjuster and honestly, I could not care less. I didn’t care whether they were licensed, either. All I cared about was liability.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that the car that “did the hitting” is automatically at fault, the discussion is specific to rear-end collisions.
A friend of mine was recently in an accident. She was at fault, she pulled out of an intersection where her line of sight was obstructed and into the path of an oncoming car. The oncoming car T-boned her car. The oncoming car had the right of way. Everything was fine and she sort of admitted she was at fault until one of her idiot friends came up with the “how can you be at fault - he hit YOU” line of reasoning and for a day or so was convinced that she was the victim.
Finally I pointed out to her that if the timing had differed by a split second, she would’ve hit him. I think she gets it now.
Even for rear end collisions. Say you were leaving the right amount of space and another car cuts into the space and then slams on the brakes because the car ahead did so. You rear end the cutter. A rear end collision, but if I were on the jury I wouldn’t find you at fault. Given the odd behavior of cars A and B, I’m not sure the OPs fault is all that clear. I’d have to see a lot more evidence than what has been presented - which won’t happen because no citations were issued.
<threadjack>How do other drivers of larger vehicles handle this?
I have driven a one-ton box truck in rush hour traffic: I know I need to leave more room because of a longer stopping distance, but nobody else will let me. I back off from the car ahead, somebody jumps into the space, I drop back further, two cars jump into the space, lather/rinse/repeat. Aside from picking a better hour to travel, what’s the secret to making sure you have adequate space? or do you just go with the flow and hope for the best?
My point exactly, especially in a large, busy city
Simple, you drive more slowly. I drove a Snap On tool truck loaded with 20,000lb of heavy ass tools. You learn to be zen about driving.
Frankly I’m surprised you still have a job. As a commercial driver the onus is on you. You are the one getting paid to drive, act like it. You screwed up driving too fast for conditions and you are trying to blame others. Have you had any driver training at all? They drill into your head that everyone is actively trying to hit you and you need to always know where to put your vehicle.
I can assure you that doesn’t work in Kansas City. You drive more slowly, and not only do you have the crazy fools in back of you honking and zooming around you, you’ve got people in the next lane swooping in front of you to take advantage of the “extra” space you left. If you’re not driving at least reasonably close to the average speed, you are yourself a hazard, and you’ve increased the likelihood of an accident.
In KC, I’ve seen people pull directly in front of a big rig, barely missing his front bumper in their race to get ahead. All of the “zen” in the world isn’t going to help that poor trucker if he needs to stop even not-all-that-suddenly.
I saw the aftermath of an accident one time: a fully-loaded semi tooling along in the outside lane on the interstate, with traffic on his left so he couldn’t switch lanes. A little subcompact came down the on-ramp, pulled right out in front, and couldn’t accelerate in time. The cab of the semi went over the little car; the trucker walked away, while every occupant of the car was pronounced at the scene. The trucker was not cited, because there was nothing at all he could have done to compensate for the other driver’s stupidity.
I can assure you not hitting other people is a job requirement with numerous companies that operate throughout the US. Many trucking companies have zero tolerance policies when it comes to surchargable events. These companies don’t seem to have a problem finding drivers.
If someone cuts in front of you you slow down until there is sufficient space between you and them. There is no if, ands, or buts about it. If that forces you don’t to 5mph so be it. The vehicle behind you has the same obligation not to hit you.
If you’re paranoid about the driving habits of those around you install a dash cam so if something does happen you have video of them violating your right of way.
I know many professional drivers who have had long careers without every getting in an accident. People will do stupid things, part of being a professional is recognizing that, being prepared for that and accounting for it.