Car buying advice wanted (a bit strange maybe)

In My Humble Opinion
1

So I’m in the process of buying a car for the first time (currently I’m driving a hand me down) and I would like some advice regarding the two propositions that seem most interesting to me at the moment. It will be a used car, because new cars are priced through the roof here in the Netherlands. Succinctly put, the choice is between entry level and fairly new and higher spec but a bit older. What makes it a bit weird for this board, is that neither of the cars are available on the US market. But I think that may actually be a good thing. They newish option is a 2016 Seat Leon and the older option is a 2011/2012 Alfa Romeo Giullietta. To me they are two of the best looking cars in the segment (the “C- segment” here in the Netherlands, “compact” in the US I think) and can be compared to a Ford Focus, VW Golf, Audi A3 and BMW 1 series (respectively: ugly, boring, too expensive for what is in essence a golf and BMW is unlikely since I have no issues with the size of my penis:)).

Discussing the two options around these parts quickly becomes a discussion about Alfa Romeo in general, which some people love and others hate, with very little in between. The Seat still suffers from the image of a being a cheap Golf knock off, while it is actually almost identical, but a bit better looking and sportier (in my opinion). In any case, here are some of the specs of a couple of cars I found:

Seat Leon 2016
40000 km (25000 miles)
1.0 petrol engine (3 cilinder) and 115 bhp
6 speed manual gear box
0-60 in 9,7 seconds with a top speed of about 130 mph (207 kmh)
Standard cloth interior with some modern features like a big touch screen and rearview camera.
Price probably just above 15000 euros.

Alfa Giulietta (late 2011 or early 2012)
100000 km (60000 miles)
1.4 multi air petrol engine with 170 bhp
6 speed dual clutch automatic gear box
0-60 in 7,8 seconds with a top speed of 136 mph (218kmh)
Leather seats (heated), but no touch screen and just some rear parking sensors
Price probably between 11000 and 12000 euros.

I would suggest you take your time to laugh at the prices we need to pay for used cars in these parts:(. The Alfa is closer to my initial budget, but I could manage the price for the Seat as well. Funnily enough, newer Giuliettas at lower specs seem very expensive, as is the case with older Seats (a very similar 2013 Seat with an older, weaker engine would still be above 13000). The Leon is more fuel efficient, but that is mainly due to the weaker engine. The Giulietta has similar mileage to the Seats with similarly strong engines. My current poor excuse for a vehicle is an automatic and I do have a slight preference for them (mostly in traffic), but I drive stick often enough that it isn’t a big issue. Road taxes would be a bit higher for the Giulietta, because it weighs more. Both cars have been reviewed as being “great driving cars”, although the Giulietta is considered a bit outdated by now. The Leon is built on the famous VAG MQB platform. I’m not sure how much importance I should give to this, since I don’t do the seaside drive from St. Tropez to the Amalfi coast that often and the Transfagarasan highway also isn’t part of my daily comute.

Off course it’s important to know what I will use the car for. To say it will be a daily driver, would be an incorrect description. All my day to day travel is by bike or train (benefit of living in the Netherlands), sometimes I take the heap of junk I currently drive for a spin just because I want to make sure its crappy battery doesn’t drain from being inactive too long. When I use the car, it will mostly be for longer trips of at least 500km (300+ miles) over a couple of days, or longer trips if I have more time. Mostly on highways, a substantial part of which on the German autobahn. Being able to smoothly reach 100 mph will come in handy now and then (currently I have to drive very defensively in Germany and sometimes it feels like I’m watching my mirrors more than actually looking ahead). But I think both cars should be able to do that.

So do I choose the older car with a stronger engine, nice interior and relaxing auto gear box; or do I go for the new, modern car with more basic specs? Any input is welcome. I specifically have little idea how noticeable the difference in power would be.

2

I’m from the UK, where both cars are sold. Personally, I always look for performance first, I care much less about looks and hardly at all about ancillary features of a car. I’m also cheap - or at least, dislike spending more than I have to. For all these reasons you can guess that of those two choices, I’d pick the Alfa every time. They say that you’re not a true car enthusiast until you’ve owned an Alfa (I haven’t - yet). And their reliability should be a lot better than it used to be, albeit probably not up to VAG (including SEAT) standard. The only downside for me is that I prefer manual to automatic, but I see that isn’t an issue for you.

Trying to look at it more from your point of view - I think the extra power of the Alfa will make a huge difference, especially on the Autobahn. Not so much in the top speeds, which I see are (surprisingly) similar, but the acceleration - the 0-60 times are significantly different. And you would expect the bigger engine to be much more refined at 100mph. I don’t know which would be more comfortable, you should aim to try both to find your personal preference.

In my (non-mechanic’s) view, 100,000km is nothing on a car less than 10 years old - you should expect it to cope with at least double that.

Good luck!

For reference, I drive a 10 year-old Mazda3 MPS - 2.3 turbo petrol, 252bhp :). The only gizmo I’d rather not have to do without is its cruise control, which I assume both your choices have - handy on longer trips.

3

Of the two, I would go for the Seat Leon. That Alfa will be coming up for a cam belt replacement at 72000 miles, and Alfa Romeo have a poor reputation for reliability anyway. And at 6 years old, you’ll be worring about rust.

[

](http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/alfa-romeo/giulietta/reliability)

You might also look at Skoda cars like the Octavia and the Rapid.

4

I love Italian cars but I’ve got to say I’d love the chance to own a BMW 1-series hatch (we only got coupes and cabs here in the US), and while I’m glad you’re happy with your penis, it’s worth a test drive if you enjoy driving. BMWs are the choice of enthusiasts because they really do drive well - I’ve owned as many Porsches as BMWs and the driving experience is amazingly close, imo.

5

I’ve never known a 0-60 time to have any relevance to anything as far as daily driving goes. What matters in practical terms is in-gear acceleration, like 30-50/50-70.

6

0-60 (in reality, 0-45 or 50) speed can be very relevant, depending on the type of driving one does. On my commute I have several places where I have to, from a dead stop, turn onto a busy road. My 6 cylinder turbo comes in very handy just about every day. For the OP who will be doing long trips on highways, not so much.

7

I’ve actually found that most sources indicate that the Giulietta has few recurring issues and the engines especially seem reliable (unlike some of the tsi petrol engines of VAG the last years). Rust definitely something I’d be looking for when/if I go try one.

Funnily enough there are very few recent Rapids and Octavias on the market here. The ones that are available are mostly Diesels, that is a no go here because it doubles the road tax (literally). Only at around 30000 km a year it becomes a good option.

While I don’t really like the brand, that was of course a bit tongue in cheek. Beemers are outside of the budget really. You can get 5 year old entry level 114s (100bhp) for around the price of the Leon; maybe a tad less. I really am only willing to go that high if it is really “almost new”. Same with the A3 btw, would love to have one, but the price is too high for me and then my brain kicks in about it being mostly the same as the Leon (under the bonnet that is).

I get that and I don’t really know how much difference the extra power makes on those things. I understand that weight plays a role here as well (the Leon is about 1100 kg and the Alfa 1250kg, btw). The ease (=speed) at which you can get from 60 mph to 80 or 90 mph is something that could play a big part in the final decision (if it is very different between the two cars). Would the power difference be a big factor here?

For what its worth, I believe you can downshift manually in the automatic as well, if you’d want it.

Thanks for the responses so far.

8

Unless it’s an Alfa Romeo. Especially since it’s an Alfa Romeo.

Their new cars have reliability issues, let alone a used one.

I would never buy an Alfa Romeo and I suggest you avoid this one too.

9

Go with the newer Seat. You do not want a breakdown on the long trips. If it was a more local car, trying the Alfa would be fun. Any mechanical problem would have a greater chance of being fixed quickly and cheaper with the Seat as it’s related to the VAG group; same platforms and parts.

Good luck finding 100 mph on the Autobahn. Was there last year for 3 months and it was only short spurts between construction sections. A lot of 110 kph sections or less. Belgium was 130 kph maximum with construction as well. The Seat will be fine.

10

Given the figures you have quoted, I would be amazed if you didn’t notice a big difference between the two cars’ acceleration from 60mph to 90mph. Of course, what you really need is a test drive (even if you can’t do 60-90, 30-60 should give you a reasonable indication of relative performance). My advice would be that if you decide the SEAT is the better choice for you, find one you can test drive, and if you’re happy with how it feels, go for it. I wouldn’t recommend following that with a test drive in the Alfa, as you might then decide it’s too much fun to pass up. On the other hand, if the SEAT feels underpowered or otherwise not right for you, by all means try the Alfa.

I’m not going to say you’re wrong because I haven’t researched the matter, but it appears the OP has and his findings seem to go against this. I am well aware that Alfas come with a lot of baggage, even 10 years ago I would assume they still had issues, but they must have improved since then.

Based on the posts so far I’d still go with the Alfa. In fact, I might even have considered it for my next car, but I want something a bit bigger and RWD. 2002/3 BMW M5 is the dream :).

11

I’m not wrong. Fiat/Chrysler (owners of Alfa Romeo) has notoriously bad reliability across many, many of their carlines. Couple that with Alfa Romeo’s notoriously poor service and reliability records and you end up with car reviews like this: Alfa Romeo Is Its Own Worst Enemy

And this is their first foray back into the sports sedan market in America in 20 years! And on their top dog sports sedan the Quadrifoglio, and these are brand new press tester cars.

From the article "After a decade and a half in the business, I have a host of stories like this. But the Alfa is different. My last Giulia press car—two months ago, in Seattle—idled so unevenly, the cabin rocked. Its transmission didn’t like pulling away from stoplights, either slipping excessively or jerking to speed from a stop. Earlier this year, when our digital director, Travis Okulski, had a test Giulia, the headlight washer cover fell off, the seat-height adjuster came away in his hands, and the radio refused to change stations.

Nor are we alone. As Jalopnik recently noted:

Consumer Reports’ Alfa has been to the dealer service bay three times since they bought it. The UK’s Sunday Times had three Giulias crap out on them. Forums abound with reliability issues. Pistonheads had an Alfa Giulia break down in the middle of a test against a Mercedes and a BMW. Motor Trend’s Alfa was completely defeated by a normal driveway.
The above lines were published a day after Jalopnik’s editor-in-chief, Patrick George, found himself on the side of I-87 with a Giulia that simply stopped running. The same exact vehicle that R&T’s web team had a week earlier, which also threw a check engine light. Motor Authority went to Gingerman and had issues. Finally, R&T’s sister publication, Car and Driver, has seen three test Giulias to date. The first one, a Quadrifoglio, forced itself into limited-power efficiency mode whenever you remote-started the car. It wouldn’t leave that mode unless you reset it with a code reader. The next car, another Quadrifoglio, at the magazine’s annual Lightning Lap track test, refused to rev to the end of the tach. It threw trouble codes, lit the check-engine light, and started short-shifting. The most recent car that C/D tested, a 2.0-liter base model, jammed its sunroof open. The headliner-mounted switch console also stopped working. Someone eventually got the roof to close, but the car spent the rest of its time at the magazine with a note attached. It said something like, WHATEVER YOU DO, DON’T OPEN THE SUNROOF.

I asked C/D’s technical director, Eric Tingwall, if there was a common thread. “They don’t fail with any kind of consistency, in my experience,” he said. “It’s not like there’s just one component that’s causing this. It’s not just Quads, it’s Quads and 2.0-liters, engines and transmissions.” A few weeks ago, when Tingwall left to test the Alfa Stelvio SUV in Tennessee, he reluctantly packed a code reader in his luggage, assuming it might come in handy. He didn’t need it, but, “Within two miles of finishing the drive, I’m pulling up to the hotel, and the auto-start-stop icon on the dash lit up with a warning light next to it.”
We asked Alfa Romeo about the the issues seen with its vehicles, media testers or otherwise. The company declined to comment."

12

Seems like a lot to spend on a car that will be used so infrequently. I’d keep the current car (and maybe buy a battery tender) for shorter trips and rent something for longer trips.

13

Have you read the posts made by FoieGrasIsEvil and myself?

14

I’m betting that the 60,000 miles on that Alfa have been some hard-use miles with a heavy foot on the accelerator. I’d also be leery of having to replace major components soon, as mentioned above. The Seat, with only 25,000 miles on the odometer, is not even broken in yet, and would be the smarter purchase, IMO.

15

Yes, though I must admit I hadn’t clicked on your cite until now. FGIE’s first post did not have a cite, the one after my last post is indeed illuminating, as was yours. However, I find your post more persuasive as it relates to the exact model in question. I would expect the Giulietta to be less prone to problems than larger, sportier Alfas. Also, I note from your cite that it still scored around 90%. 10 years ago that figure was probably way lower for the Alfa 147, and 10 years before that it was probably on the floor for the Alfa 145. The fact is that it is rare for any car built in the last 10 years to have an outright mechanical failure. Sure, you are increasing your chances of this happening if you choose an Alfa, but in my view, not by a significant enough amount to sacrifice having fun. Obviously, others see it differently.

ETA: I think one of the customer comments from your cite sums it up nicely: “No problems with this or previous. If you are worried dont buy alfa [sic].”